Rules book and case book

[bigjohn]

For those of you that say books are not to be carried by officials. They are in Ohio


5. NEW EFFECTIVE November 4: We have carried a NFHS Rules Book & Case Book to the field in
the past. However, it has never been written. Now it is. If the HC wants to have a
Coach/Referee conference to discuss a misapplication of a Rule, then do it. If the HC & the
officials disagree on the ruling, then EVERY CREW IS REQUIRED TO SHOW THE HC IN THE RULES
&/or CASE BOOK what the ruling states. Incredibly this year, we had some of the most basic
Penalty Enforcements enforced incorrectly (OPI & DPI). The crew failed to check their books.

http://owvfoa.com/ohio%202011%20playoff%20bulletin.pdf

[maven]

Had this in my game Friday night: I waved off my own flag for running into the kicker, and the coach demanded to see the rule that allowed me to do that. So I showed him 9-4-5a and explained that in my judgment a kick was not reasonably certain (his punter has muffed the snap and run about 4 yards before kicking the ball).

He disagreed with my judgment but was quite polite about it.

I forgot to assess him a charged TO for that, but that error turned out to make no difference in the game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by maven

Had this in my game Friday night: I waved off my own flag for running into the kicker, and the coach demanded to see the rule that allowed me to do that. So I showed him 9-4-5a and explained that in my judgment a kick was not reasonably certain (his punter has muffed the snap and run about 4 yards before kicking the ball).

He disagreed with my judgment but was quite polite about it.

I forgot to assess him a charged TO for that, but that error turned out to make no difference in the game.

What if you had said, "I changed my mind and decided that I was wrong -- it wasn't a foul?"

I can't see how it could ever look good trying to find a citation for a coach -- especially if it takes more than 5 seconds.

Then again, it seems that Ohio is really trying to do its own thing. Some of the things I read in the Gold Book are quite good -- some are amazingly nutty. But then again, when in Rome...

[Adam]

Seems to me the onus should be on the coach to show you the rule if you're going to allow these shananigans.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Adam

Seems to me the onus should be on the coach to show you the rule if you're going to allow these shananigans.

Yup.

We use to have an NAFL team in my area and I was a Referee. The NAFL uses NFL rules, and the NFL as we all know has challenges.

The NAFL approach to challenges was to allow a coach to keep a rule book with him and if there was a misapplication of a rule, I had to meet him at the sideline and the onus was on him to show the error of the crew. I would then interpret and make a final ruling.

[bigjohn]

i have the rules and case books on my iphone I know the rules well enough to find the one that is applicable, would you let me use the app?

[JRutledge]

One more reason not to live in Ohio. There are many reasons, but this is a big one for me.

Peace

[parepat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

One more reason not to live in Ohio. There are many reasons, but this is a big one for me.

Peace

Now, now don't pick on the Buckeye state. Other than Big John, there is alot to offer!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by parepat

Now, now don't pick on the Buckeye state. Other than Big John, there is alot to offer!

I have been to Ohio several time and I will pass.

Peace

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Rich

What if you had said, "I changed my mind and decided that I was wrong -- it wasn't a foul?"

I can't see how it could ever look good trying to find a citation for a coach -- especially if it takes more than 5 seconds.

Then again, it seems that Ohio is really trying to do its own thing. Some of the things I read in the Gold Book are quite good -- some are amazingly nutty. But then again, when in Rome...

Rich:

I am ruled by the Gold Book these days. I don't always agree with everything in it, but we do as we are told. I'd be interested to know what an outsider considers "amazingly nutty" in it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by parepat

Rich:

I am ruled by the Gold Book these days. I don't always agree with everything in it, but we do as we are told. I'd be interested to know what an outsider considers "amazingly nutty" in it.

Putting the R on the wide side of the field rather than the passing hand side is the first thing that comes to mind. It's much easier for me (as the R) to see a hand coming forward on a pass attempt from the passing hand side and OH seems to be the only state/body to make this rather big switch.

I'll walk through it again and find some other things.

[bigjohn]

18. R & Toss: Catch the coin or flip the coin again.

Just read the bulletin, lots of sillies according to what I read in this forum.

http://owvfoa.com/ohio%202011%20playoff%20bulletin.pdf

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Rich

Putting the R on the wide side of the field rather than the passing hand side is the first thing that comes to mind. It's much easier for me (as the R) to see a hand coming forward on a pass attempt from the passing hand side and OH seems to be the only state/body to make this rather big switch.

I'll walk through it again and find some other things.

I agree. The other result is that when A runs or throws to the wide side, the R can t help w the ball as he has to rush to the other side of the QB.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

What if you had said, "I changed my mind and decided that I was wrong -- it wasn't a foul?"

I can't see how it could ever look good trying to find a citation for a coach -- especially if it takes more than 5 seconds.

Then again, it seems that Ohio is really trying to do its own thing. Some of the things I read in the Gold Book are quite good -- some are amazingly nutty. But then again, when in Rome...

I talked about this issue with my umpire, who worked in another state for 15 years. We have no testing beyond the 2nd year, and as a result you have entire crews who last looked in a rule book in 1988.

So what's easier: implementing a system of testing and evaluation of football officials statewide (with something like 4500 officials), or empowering coaches to challenge officials on the rules during a game? We could (and likely will) do both, eventually, but in the short term I think the answer is clear.

I don't read what they're doing as "trying to do its own thing," at least not just change for its own sake. The Gold Book generally and this provision in particular are motivated by a good faith effort to improve the consistency, overall quality, and accountability of football officiating in Ohio.

And as much as we might quibble with this or that mechanic, I think the goal and approach are worthwhile.

[JRutledge]

There is nothing wrong with having standards or consistency, but I would think the goal would be to use things that work, not use things that are outdated or do not help the officials or the coaches understanding what is being done out there. If you are watching through a passer and cannot see his arm on a pass, how are you going to get "consistency?" It is simply bad.

Peace