Gender Wars....

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

The school didn't say it in the meeting. The schools still maintain plausible deniability. Frankly, if one must do business with people like this to stay in business, it's probably not worth the headache. You can't trust them.

I'm assuming the schools voted on and hired the commissioner. When he speaks and when he acts he is them. --Which is why you don't want to hire knuckleheads to represent you. Nothing is ever as clear/cut and dry in these situations.

What I imagine the schools would say is "our commissioner, he's a little round ( as in not sharp). We sent him there to say we needed better officials for our games..don't send us officials who aren't up to job...." Commissioner may say I meant don't send any official including those women because they are not up to job. Not because of being a woman...

May come down to whether the women in the association are competent--and if somebody decides to take it on.

I guess what I would like to think is that if a school or group of schools said "don't send BigCat, because we just don't want cats,"- someone in my association, my association as a group, would stand up for me. try to help me. One for all all for one sort of deal....
I've never been a fan of "every man for himself."

[JRutledge]

That is the problem. These kinds of relationships are the ultimate problem. So glad we do not have them here. But we seem to be the exception.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I'm assuming the schools voted on and hired the commissioner.

You may be right. We don't have a commissioner here, but I've worked in an area that did before. The term is going to be defined differently, and the occupant selected differently, around the country.

That said, I think the best response would be to simply write them a letter:

Dear sirs,
We have received your request that we only send male officials to your boys basketball contests. After discussing it with our attorneys, we have come to the conclusion that it is simply not a lawful request so we must respectfully decline your request.

Sincerely,

[Raymond]

schools hire an association. Associations determine how the commissioner's slot is filled. The Commissioners work for the association and negotiate contracts on behalf of the associations.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

You may be right. We don't have a commissioner here, but I've worked in an area that did before. The term is going to be defined differently, and the occupant selected differently, around the country.

That said, I think the best response would be to simply write them a letter:

Dear sirs,
We have received your request that we only send male officials to your boys basketball contests. After discussing it with our attorneys, we have come to the conclusion that it is simply not a lawful request so we must respectfully decline your request.

Sincerely,

Not bad letter Adam...
I think it would be best for the association to talk to lawyer before acting. Better to get some guidance now than have to clean up huge mess later. Example: school person who thought it was ok to say "no women" through "back channel." Bad idea...big mess....

[BillyMac]

I'm having some trouble following the legal aspects of this discussion, but, for what it's worth (maybe nothing, strike that, probably nothing), here's part of our local Code Of Ethics And Conduct For Board Members:

Board members shall not be party to actions designed to unfairly limit or restrain access to officiating, officiating assignments or association membership. This includes selection for positions of leadership based upon economic factors, race, creed, color, age, sex, physical disability, country of national origin.

Here in Connecticut, our local IAABO boards hire commissioners who are responsible for assigning regular season games, and said commissioners are also local board members.

To inject some Devil's' advocate silliness into this thread, we already have one deaf official (who is quite good). What happens when a legally blind person, or a person in a wheelchair, wants to become an official? Are there limits? Can anyone (short of not passing a criminal background check) be denied? What if they can't pass the written rule test, or the floor exam, due to a physical disability? Will the civil liberty lawyers get them out of "non-officiating jail"? I'm a retired middle school teacher, and we had to adjust exams for various physical, and mental, disabilities for many students. Will we have to give our written rules exam in a language other than English, like they do for our State Department of Motor Vehicles drivers license exam? Braille? Another random thought: After perusing the "list", I find it interesting that sexual orientation is not included in our local Code above. Is anything else missing? What if a faith-based school requests that no gay officials be assigned there? Again, these are random thoughts. Curiosity killed the cat, and, maybe, can kill BillyMac.

Man, this is a complicated topic, that can make your head spin, whether you're a conservative, or a progressive.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm having some trouble following the legal aspects of this discussion, but, for what it's worth (maybe nothing, strike that, probably nothing), here's part of our local Code Of Ethics And Conduct For Board Members:

Board members shall not be party to actions designed to unfairly limit or restrain access to officiating, officiating assignments or association membership. This includes selection for positions of leadership based upon economic factors, race, creed, color, age, sex, physical disability, country of national origin.

Here in Connecticut, our local IAABO boards hire commissioners who are responsible for assigning regular season games, and said commissioners are also a local board members.

To inject some Devil's' advocate silliness into this thread, we already have one deaf official (who is quite good). What happens when a legally blind person, or a person in a wheelchair, wants to become an official? Are there limits? Can anyone (short of not passing a criminal background check) be denied? What if they can't pass the written rule test, or the floor exam, due to a physical disability? Will the civil liberty lawyers get them out of "non-officiating jail"? I'm a retired middle school teacher, and we had to adjust exams for various physical, and mental, disabilities for many students. Will we have to give our written rules exam in a language other than English, like they do for our State Department of Motor Vehicles drivers license exam? Braille? Another random thought: After perusing the "list", I find it interesting that sexual orientation is not included in our local Code above. Is anything else missing? What if a faith-based school requests that no gay officials be assigned there? Again, these are random thoughts. Curiosity killed the cat, and, maybe, can kill BillyMac.

Man, this is a complicated topic, that can make your head spin, whether you're a conservative, or a progressive.

Please don't let curiosity kill the cat. Specifically me...It can be extremely complicated. There's a lot to it. But employers can turn people down for a lot of reasons or no reasons at all. Billy your too fat, too slow, you don't know rules.

What raises the red flags are the big ones...race, sex etc. Billy, you are fired because you are African American or because you are a woman. And even if one of those IS really the reason you are being fired, employers will never say it to you or admit it. A person can sue the employer and claim they were fired for race but if employer can point to anything else, you don't know rules, too slow, you name it...they win.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Billy your too fat, too slow, you don't know rules.

Have we met? We know each other from where? I've never been to the Land of Lincoln, and yet, you seem to know me quite well.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Have we met? We know each other from where? I've never been to the Land of Lincoln, and yet, you seem to know me quite well.

You are known all across the land...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigCat

You are known all across the land...

Please don't feed the BillyMac.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Please don't feed the BillyMac.

Damn right. Otherwise he'll throw poop at you.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Damn right. Otherwise he'll throw poop at you.

too late

[Moosie74]

If this association doesn't want females officiating boys games, what do they do with females coaching boys teams?

I can think of a few big schools with women who are the head coach of a boys varsity/JV or middle school teams. One school has a woman coaching each of those levels.

One association I work with has 240 +/- officials, 10 are female, 6 only work subvarsity. Odds say you're getting a male, probably 2-3 most nights regardless of the gender of the participants.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Moosie74

If this association doesn't want females officiating boys games, what do they do with females coaching boys teams?
...

It is not the association that doesn't want females working BV, it's the conference of teams.

The association has a commissioner who handles all contract negotiations with schools and conferences.

Originally Posted by Moosie74

If this association doesn't want females officiating boys games, what do they do with females coaching boys teams?

I can think of a few big schools with women who are the head coach of a boys varsity/JV or middle school teams. One school has a woman coaching each of those levels.

One association I work with has 240 +/- officials, 10 are female, 6 only work subvarsity. Odds say you're getting a male, probably 2-3 most nights regardless of the gender of the participants.

Guess your area is more progressive than mine, I've never seen a woman coaching a Freshman/JV boys team, much less the Varsity.