Uconn v Stanford Women's (Video)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Typo? Or, am I missing something.

And, I agree that this should NOT have been a PC foul because of the RA.

Bob:

It was a typo and I corrected it.

This is a charge because A-41 was the primary defender therefore, the RA is not relevant to the play.

MTD, Sr.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Bob:

It was a typo and I corrected it.

This is a charge because A-41 was the primary defender therefore, the RA is not relevant to the play.

MTD, Sr.

Unless the rule is different in Women's, on a fast break everyone is a secondary defender.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Bob:

It was a typo and I corrected it.

This is a charge because A-41 was the primary defender therefore, the RA is not relevant to the play.

MTD, Sr.

1. This is a fast break

2. The defender is a help defender who came to help off the player she was initially guarding in the paint...this also makes her a secondary defender.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

1) NCAAW R4-S35-A2 states that in a fast break situation all defenders are initially secondary defenders. That does not mean that all defenders are secondary defenders during the entire fast break play which would be nonsense. At some point during the fast break play there is the possibility that there will be a defender who will become the primary defender against the ball handler. By rule the RA applies to a secondary defender and does not apply to the primary defender.

2) As Warner Wolfe would say: "Lets go to the video!" When B-11 gains PC control of the ball she has a clear path to the Basket; there are no defenders between her and the Basket. She is not being defended. That means when A-41 established a LGP against B-11, she became the primary defender against B-11. The RA does not apply in this situation and B-11 charges into A-41.

3) If one takes the position that NCAAW R4-S35-A2 means that there cannot ever be a primary defender during a fast break play, then in the play being discussed, no defender would be allowed to defend B-11 once she gains PC of the Ball and has to be allowed to drive to the Basket uncontested, which in nonsense.

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

then in the play being discussed, no defender would be allowed to defend B-11 once she gains PC of the Ball and has to be allowed to drive to the Basket uncontested, which in nonsense.

MTD, Sr.

That's not at all what the rule says or what the rule means.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

3) If one takes the position that NCAAW R4-S35-A2 means that there cannot ever be a primary defender during a fast break play, then in the play being discussed, no defender would be allowed to defend B-11 once she gains PC of the Ball and has to be allowed to drive to the Basket uncontested, which in nonsense.

MTD, Sr.

That is not what the rule says at all. I'm not really sure how you came to that conclusion.



NCAA-W Case Book (2014-2015)

A.R. 96. Team A is on a 3 on 2 or a 2 on 3 fast break, and any player on Team B takes an initial guarding position (1) within the restricted area with two feet on the floor and facing the opponent, or (2) outside the restricted area with two feet on the floor and facing the opponent in an attempt to draw a player control/charging foul. A2, who is located outside the lower defensive box, receives a pass before making her move to the basket and crashes into the torso of the Team B player, and the official calls a player control/charging foul.

RULING: (1) The official is incorrect. The Team B player may not establish initial legal guarding position inside the restricted area when guarding a player who has the ball and was located outside the lower defensive box when she started her move to the basket, and the illegal contact by B is a blocking foul. (2) The official is correct. Even though the Team B player is initially a secondary defender, she did not establish initial guarding position inside the restricted area. When illegal contact occurs, it shall be a player control/charging foul. (Rule 4-30, 4-35.3 and 10-1.13)

This clip is literally this case book play save for it being a 4 v 3 fast break.

[RefCT]

The other interesting thing about this play is they had to go to the monitor to figure out who the foul was on. Obviously the RA was not reviewable but they weren't sure of the player.

It seems like both officials had a lapse during the play. They were not sure who was going to come out with it and then they forgot to get the player.

[jeremy341a]

This just reminded me why I hate the RA.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

1) NCAAW R4-S35-A2 states that in a fast break situation all defenders are initially secondary defenders. That does not mean that all defenders are secondary defenders during the entire fast break play which would be nonsense. At some point during the fast break play there is the possibility that there will be a defender who will become the primary defender against the ball handler. By rule the RA applies to a secondary defender and does not apply to the primary defender.

Mark, they're initially secondary defenders as far as the RA is concerned. Defenders on a fast break can always draw PC fouls as long as they establish LGP outside the RA.

I can't find the interp - which annoys me - but I remember being told they keep secondary defender status until the offense shoots or stops attacking the goal.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

but I remember being told they keep secondary defender status until the offense shoots or stops attacking the goal.

Not sure if there is a case play for this, but it is part of the definition. Try looking in the rule book instead of the case book.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Not sure if there is a case play for this, but it is part of the definition. Try looking in the rule book instead of the case book.

Thanks. It's in 10-13. It doesn't specifically discuss fast breaks within the rule and that's where I got stuck in my search.

[SWMOzebra]

This:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

they keep secondary defender status until the offense shoots or stops attacking the goal.

The pass does not negate the fast break.