Goaltending during a FT

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The goaltending definition relating to a free throw says it is goaltending if you touch the ball outside the cylinder.

4-22: Goaltending occurs when ... an opponent of the free thrower
touches the ball outside the cylinder during a free-throw attempt.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-22: Goaltending occurs when ... an opponent of the free thrower
touches the ball outside the cylinder during a free-throw attempt.

Yes opponent thx. And thx for cite

[JetMetFan]

Bob, I may be mixing metaphors here but consider another scenario: It's a violation for a throw-in to go directly into a team's basket. However if, on a throw-in, a player violates the BI rule it's still BI.

In other words, BI exists independently of many other things that can take place, including GT.

[Rich1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A side bar for this video:

Why did the coach tell his player to goal tend? And, did he notknow this would be a flagrant/DQ situation? And, would any of you whack the coach for telling his pkayer to do it (making a mockery of the game)? I'm not sure if he was upset with the calls or if it was some lame strategy but I can't see any benefit at all for having a player do this.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich1

A side bar for this video: Why did the coach tell his player to goal tend? ... lame strategy but I can't see any benefit at all for having a player do this.

Already answered:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

As discussed in "our" meeting last night, the actions that I showed in this video, the team was doing it as a strategic action. They felt GTing the ball was going to give them a shot to keep the clock stopped and just get the ball back. The coach did not know it was a T and instructed his player to block the ball.

This coach certainly isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich1

And, did he notknow this would be a flagrant/DQ situation?

I sure hope he didn't know this, because it isn't.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich1

A side bar for this video:

Why did the coach tell his player to goal tend?

Because he thought he was clever and that the officials would just count the bucket and give them the ball for the throwin. He didn't want a miss and rebound since the clock would start and they needed time more than anything.

Originally Posted by Rich1

And, did he notknow this would be a flagrant/DQ situation?

Nope. And as bob said, it is just a player T. It would only be a flagrant/dq if the player already had a T...and he didn't.

Originally Posted by Rich1

And, would any of you whack the coach for telling his pkayer to do it (making a mockery of the game)?

Absolutely not. The T on the player is sufficient. No need to penalize stupid any more.

Originally Posted by Rich1

I'm not sure if he was upset with the calls or if it was some lame strategy but I can't see any benefit at all for having a player do this.

He didn't know the rule. That's all.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich1

A side bar for this video:

Why did the coach tell his player to goal tend? And, did he notknow this would be a flagrant/DQ situation? And, would any of you whack the coach for telling his pkayer to do it (making a mockery of the game)? I'm not sure if he was upset with the calls or if it was some lame strategy but I can't see any benefit at all for having a player do this.

The way I understand it, he thought that it would just be a point given and they would get the ball back on the end line. Obviously he did not know the rule or the ramifications.

And no, I would not whack the coach. They are already ignorant enough, why compound the issue?

I think all of this was known after the game when the coach revealed his strategy. Keep in mind this coach was fired soon after this season.

Peace

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree, once the ball has touched the rim. But, it's possible to BI before that, and, in my mind, should carry the same penalty as GT on a FT.

Can you describe a play that is BI before the ball touches the rim? I am having a hard time thinking of anything.

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Can you describe a play that is BI before the ball touches the rim? I am having a hard time thinking of anything.

Sure. Ball is shot by Player A1. As ball is coming down but before it contacts the rim Player B1 grabs the rim and pulls down. B1 releases the rim and it rebounds into the oncoming ball, knocking the ball away.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Can you describe a play that is BI before the ball touches the rim? I am having a hard time thinking of anything.

Originally Posted by AremRed

Sure. Ball is shot by Player A1. As ball is coming down but before it contacts the rim Player B1 grabs the rim and pulls down. B1 releases the rim and it rebounds into the oncoming ball, knocking the ball away.

Another....A1 shoots. Just before the ball enters the cylinder, B1 reaches through the basket from below and touches the ball blocking the shot. BI.

And another...A1 shoots. The ball is in the cylinder above the rim but has not yet the the rim. B1 touches the ball. Once it enters the cylinder, it is no longer goaltending but BI.

So, in the clip above, the coach/player could have achieved their desired goal if they had waited until the ball entered the cylinder or blocked the FT by reaching through the basket from below. The basket would have been awarded and there would be no T since only GT is penalized with a T on a FT.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Can you describe a play that is BI before the ball touches the rim?

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And another...A1 shoots. The ball is in the cylinder above the rim but has not yet the the rim. B1 touches the ball. Once it enters the cylinder, it is no longer goaltending but BI.

Says who? Certainly not the NFHS.

Goaltending during a FT

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Says who? Certainly not the NFHS.

Goaltending during a FT

Nfhs says during a free throw it is goaltending if it is touched Outside the cylinder....

The other portion of the definition says during a field goal try or tap....
By NFHS definitions, on a free throw, if you wait until the ball is in the cylinder and then touch it before it hits the rim it is BI. A gap in rule. They really should just say if you touch the ball before it hits the rim its a technical.....

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Nfhs says during a free throw it is goaltending if it is touched Outside the cylinder....

The other portion of the definition says during a field goal try or tap....
By NFHS definitions, on a free throw, if you wait until the ball is in the cylinder and then touch it before it hits the rim it is BI. A gap in rule. They really should just say if you touch the ball before it hits the rim its a technical.....

Never happened to me but if it does I'm calling goaltending and a T. Portion of ball likely outside cylinder.....or something like that. Also, could fall back on unsporting...

Bob, on the player jumping up and hitting the free throw through net etc I think you could also fall back on unsporting if it wasn't an accident...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

So, in the clip above, the coach/player could have achieved their desired goal if they had waited until the ball entered the cylinder or blocked the FT by reaching through the basket from below. The basket would have been awarded and there would be no T since only GT is penalized with a T on a FT.

Exactly my point. I do get that it would be a pretty rare occurrence.

Originally Posted by BigCat

Never happened to me but if it does I'm calling goaltending and a T. Portion of ball likely outside cylinder.

You have the rule backwards. If any part is in the cylinder, the BI rules (not the GT rules) apply. I do understand that you could probably get away with it and / or fall back on the unsporting aspects