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Old Wed Oct 25, 2006, 11:58pm
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Goaltending?

Which of the following (if any) are goaltending situations?

(a) A1 makes a shot. The ball is in its downward motion (but not yet hit the rim) and B1 taps the backboard.

(b) A1 makes a shot. The ball has hit the rim and has not entered the basket, but there is a legitimate chance that it will. B1 taps the backboard.

(c) Same as situation (a) but A2 is the one that hits the backboard.

(d) Same as situation (b) but A2 is the one that hits the backboard.

Note that in all the above situations, neither the ring or net was touched.

Is the call clear cut or is it a judgement situation on whether the tap was hard enough to maybe move the backboard and alter the shot?
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 12:04am
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None of these are goaltending....no judgement required. Goaltending always involves touching the ball on its downward flight and before it enters the cylinder.

Contacting the backboard is either a technical foul or it is nothing.
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 12:37am
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Camron is 100% right.

Furthermore, none of these situations qualify as basket interference!
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 01:00am
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actuary77...
Here is Case book play 10.3.5 SITUATION:
A1 tries for a goal, and (a) B1 jumps and attempts to block the shot but instead slaps or strikes the backboard and the ball goes into the basket; or (b) B1 vibrates the ring as a result of pulling on the net and the ball does not enter the basket. RULING In (a) legal and the basket counts; and (b) a technical foul is charged to B1 and there is no basket.
COMMENT: The purpose of the rule is to penalize intentional contact with the backboard while a shot or try is involved or placing a hand on the backboard to gain an advantage. A player who strikes either backboard so frocefully it cannot be ignored because it is an attempt to draw attention to the player, or a means of venting frustration may be assessed a technical foul pursuant to Rule 10-3-7.

This may help you understand the "slapping the backboard" situations you may run into from time to time.
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 06:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
None of these are goaltending....no judgement required. Goaltending always involves touching the ball on its downward flight and before it enters the cylinder.
Always? Even by a defender on a free throw?
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 11:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieDude
actuary77...
Here is Case book play 10.3.5 SITUATION:
A1 tries for a goal, and (a) B1 jumps and attempts to block the shot but instead slaps or strikes the backboard and the ball goes into the basket; or (b) B1 vibrates the ring as a result of pulling on the net and the ball does not enter the basket. RULING In (a) legal and the basket counts; and (b) a technical foul is charged to B1 and there is no basket.
COMMENT: The purpose of the rule is to penalize intentional contact with the backboard while a shot or try is involved or placing a hand on the backboard to gain an advantage. A player who strikes either backboard so frocefully it cannot be ignored because it is an attempt to draw attention to the player, or a means of venting frustration may be assessed a technical foul pursuant to Rule 10-3-7.

This may help you understand the "slapping the backboard" situations you may run into from time to time.
I see that this is a direct quote from the book, so I'm not arguing about the authenticity of this ruling. But I'm interested in how the decision is made to charge a T as opposed to BI in item (b). And why is this case play in that section when it doesn't appear to involve the backboard?
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 11:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
I see that this is a direct quote from the book, so I'm not arguing about the authenticity of this ruling. But I'm interested in how the decision is made to charge a T as opposed to BI in item (b). And why is this case play in that section when it doesn't appear to involve the backboard?
(b) is badly written. It should show some reference to where the ball is when the player pulls on the net(as being not on or inside the ring), as well as the reason for pulling on the net.

Think case book play 10.3.4SitB(b) without the possibility of injury.
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 11:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
(b) is badly written. It should show some reference to where the ball is when the player pulls on the net(as being not on or inside the ring), as well as the reason for pulling on the net.
Right. If the ball is on the ring when the net is pulled, then it's a T and BI. Unless the player grasped the net to prevent injury. Then it's just BI. Unless the ball actually wasn't on the ring. Then it's nothing.

Make more sense now?
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 12:43pm
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A question about the T for pulling on the net. Why?
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 12:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Sarratt
A question about the T for pulling on the net. Why?
Grasping the basket. FED 10-3-4. NCAA 10-3-13.
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 12:51pm
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Hi chuck,

I agree. But it would have to be intentional, excessive and emphatic. Which is not the case most times.
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 01:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Sarratt
Hi chuck,

I agree. But it would have to be intentional, excessive and emphatic. Which is not the case most times.
On what citation are you basing your interpretation, Jeff?
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 02:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Sarratt
Hi chuck,

I agree. But it would have to be intentional, excessive and emphatic.
Jeff, neither rule set says "intentional". FED rules do not include the language about "excessive and emphatic". Any grasping that is not done to prevent injury is a T in high school.

The college rule does say that it's a T for grasping the basket in an excessive or emphatic manner. However, it could pretty easily be argued that any grasping beyond preventing injury is excessive. There's no reason at all to grasp the basket while dunking, except to show off or prevent injury.

It is, of course, possible to contact the basket and even move it without grasping. But grasping, especially the net, seems pretty obviously intentional to me.
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 02:34pm
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Smile

10 3 13

The rule implies intent. Because a player get his hand tangled in the net during play which may in fact be a BI, usually does not warrent a T. If am official called a T is this situation, he or she would certainly be giving another with in a matter of seconds.

The vocabulary emphatic implies "purpose."

Common sense is necessary.

However, if a player flies by and grabs the net and swings around - that is a T.
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Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 02:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
Right. If the ball is on the ring when the net is pulled, then it's a T and BI. Unless the player grasped the net to prevent injury. Then it's just BI. Unless the ball actually wasn't on the ring. Then it's nothing.

Make more sense now?
Hi Chuck,

Understood. I was referring to "pulled." the net can be accidently pulled.
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