Held ball or foul?

[Freddy]

Is this the kinda play on which some would not call a foul?
Foul Piling On to Get Held Ball - YouTube

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Is this the kinda play on which some would not call a foul?
Foul Piling On to Get Held Ball - YouTube

Good example.

Now, if black had come from the other side (the "left" in the video), I would be less likely to have a foul even if he ended up on top because he (likely) would have the ball first.

[Pantherdreams]

I'ld have a foul there.

Now if he's coming into the ball from the other side or if the player is on their back and ball is up above and the player jumps into/onto the ball and ends up landing on the player. Different story.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I'ld have a foul there.

Now if he's coming into the ball from the other side or if the player is on their back and ball is up above and the player jumps into/onto the ball and ends up landing on the player. Different story.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Perhaps you should read this:

?He or she? versus ?they? - Oxford Dictionaries (US)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I'ld have a foul there.

Now if he's coming into the ball from the other side or if the player is on their back and ball is up above and the player jumps into/onto the ball and ends up landing on the player. Different story.

Getting the ball first doesn't give a player the right to land on another player. Still a foul.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Getting the ball first doesn't give a player the right to land on another player. Still a foul.

I agree with you yet some will say that if you block the shot first than all other contact after is not a foul.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

... some will say that if you block the shot first than all other contact after is not a foul.

Note to Some: So, let's see if I've got this straight? A defender runs out to the corner to attempt to block a three point attempt. The defender legally, with no contact between the shooter, and the defender, and successfully, blocks the shot, sending the ball into the crowd (the crowd cheers) but his inertia (I love it when I get to use physics terms on the Forum) carries him into the still airborne shooter, pushing him into the third row of the bleachers, where the shooter sustains a concussion, a simple fracture of his right humerus, and a cut over his right eye that requires six stitches to close. Because the contact occurred after the shot was legally blocked, an official should rule that any subsequent contact is not a foul?

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Note to Some: So, let's see if I've got this straight? A defender runs out to the corner to attempt to block a three point attempt. The defender legally, with no contact between the shooter, and the defender, and successfully, blocks the shot, sending the ball into the crowd (the crowd cheers) but his inertia (I love it when I get to use physics terms on the Forum) carries him into the still airborne shooter, pushing him into the third row of the bleachers, where the shooter sustains a concussion, a simple fracture of his right humerus, and a cut over his right eye that requires six stitches to close. Because the contact occurred after the shot was legally blocked, an official should rule that any subsequent contact is not a foul?

That sounds like the sort of play that his interia was out of control and lead to dangerous or rough play. If similar interia carried him past the shooter brushing hinm slightly and the player landing on their feet unphased I'm guessing most would not call the foul. So contact with an airborne shooter isn't always a foul or not always a foul. There is a middle ground in there somewhere. That middle ground is determined by size/ability of athletes, age, level, location (association), and individual judgement. I'm not going to say a player jumping and ending up on another player is never a foul just like I'm not going to say its always a foul.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Note to Some: ...

Some did not make this statement. You're basing your question off hearsay by Jeremy.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I agree with you yet some will say that if you block the shot first than all other contact after is not a foul.

That seems like a blanket statement in both cases (now that the ball is blocked or held) the contact is not gaining the players a clear and immediate advantage in terms of the result of the play. Now to determine a foul call it comes to a judgement about whether the contact is excessive or leading to rough play.

The difference becomes (IMO) that I now cannot call a foul based on the immediate adv/disadv of the play not its a a serverity of contact and if I feel its becoming or leading to rough play.

I'm not sure about the sort of games every officiates but high end boys games JV, Varsity, higher+ in this neck of the woods you getting landed on is probably the least severe amount of contact you are going to deal with on a given possession. So I am going to have to see more then a jump ball where a player ends up on top of the other to make it rough(er).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I'm not sure about the sort of games every officiates but high end boys games JV, Varsity, higher+ in this neck of the woods you getting landed on is probably the least severe amount of contact you are going to deal with on a given possession.

Panther, this is the basketball board. Perhaps your intended for your post to be on the football board.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I agree with you yet some will say that if you block the shot first than all other contact after is not a foul.

Not the same. In the blocked shot case, the ball is often flying into the bleachers or somewhere such that the shooter was not going to be playing it anyway. Additionally, not ALL contact is considered incidental, just some types and amounts of contact.

However, landing on the player who is holding the ball almost certainly prevents them from being able to make some sort of play with the ball.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I'ld have a foul there.

Now if he's coming into the ball from the other side or if the player is on their back and ball is up above and the player jumps into/onto the ball and ends up landing on the player. Different story.

Yes, then you have a player control foul.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Is this the kinda play on which some would not call a foul?

I've got a foul on the Black player, and I believe that the trail has the same call as me.