Held ball or foul?

[Sharpshooternes]

So what do you all call when a1 is lying on the ground and has just recovered a loose ball and then B1 comes and lands on top of them trying to tie it up. Held ball or foul?

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

So what do you all call when a1 is lying on the ground and has just recovered a loose ball and then B1 comes and lands on top of them trying to tie it up. Held ball or foul?

Did you mean "him" when you said "them"?
If A1 and a B player had mutual grasp on the ball and then B1 comes and lands on top of "them", it could be a held ball then a dead ball technical on B1.
If B1 jumps onto "him", A1, who has the ball himself, then it's a foul.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Did you mean "him" when you said "them"?
If A1 and a B player had mutual grasp on the ball and then B1 comes and lands on top of "them", it could be a held ball then a dead ball technical on B1.
If B1 jumps onto "him", A1, who has the ball himself, then it's a foul.

Glad that someone else finally mentioned it.
Way too many people write "they" or "them" when a singular pronoun should be used. One of the worst offenders is a regular poster on this forum.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Freddy

If B1 jumps onto "him", A1, who has the ball himself, then it's a foul.

True if the ball is underneath A1 or on the "other side" of A1.

If the ball is on the "same side" as B1, then I'd generally go with the held ball and call any contact incidental.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Glad that someone else finally mentioned it.
Way too many people write "they" or "them" when a singular pronoun should be used. One of the worst offenders is a regular poster on this forum.

Any forum contributor who errs gramatically in this way...they ought not be tolerated.

(political correctness prompts too many to avoid the generic singular "he" when it can be used in a non-gender oriented sense...I'm getting tired of typing s/he as a middle ground)

Foul. I'd rather not encourage jumping on top of players to get to the ball, no matter what side it's on. Players tangled on the ground leads to unnecessary dead ball technicals.

[Pantherdreams]

He/she/they should call a jump here.

Unless the contact is clearly intent on landing on/into the player as an excuse to crash and no a play on the ball.

You've got a player on the floor who doesn't have any sort of legal position, another player making a play on the ball. Unless you can tell that the contact is clearly disadvantaging a player (laying on the ground unable to do anything with no expectation of time and space.) Then contact is incidental and we jump it up.

Unless they feel like him was creating excessive contact leading to rough play by them.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Glad that someone else finally mentioned it.
Way too many people write "they" or "them" when a singular pronoun should be used. One of the worst offenders is a regular poster on this forum.

Probably me!

I'll take note of that and fix my grammar...didn't realize I was using it like that.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I'm getting tired of typing s/he as a middle ground)

Save yourself some keystrokes, just type "e".

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

He/she/they should call a jump here.

My nomination for "Post O' The Week".

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

He/she/they should call a jump here.

Unless the contact is clearly intent on landing on/into the player as an excuse to crash and no a play on the ball.

You've got a player on the floor who doesn't have any sort of legal position, another player making a play on the ball. Unless you can tell that the contact is clearly disadvantaging a player (laying on the ground unable to do anything with no expectation of time and space.) Then contact is incidental and we jump it up.

Unless they feel like him was creating excessive contact leading to rough play by them.

Laying on the court is a legal position, nfhs a player has to the to his/her spot as long as they got there legally first.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Laying on the court is a legal position, nfhs a player has to the to his/her spot as long as they got there legally first.

Exactly, pretty much all positions are legal except when such position is used to impede an opponent.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Laying on the court is a legal position, nfhs a player has to the to his/her spot as long as they got there legally first.

Yes poor word choice on my part. I meant there was no spot to displace him off of or movement to impede. Contact made by landing "on top" isn't going to move him further into the floor, certaingly isn't going to stand him up. Ball has no where to be except either between the bodies which means the ball is getting contact/tied up first or the ball is off the side but the defensive contact is not putting the offense at any immediate disadvantage. Unless players are carshing in from the side and dog piling just to create contact, then calling fouls on players diving on loose balls probably isn't going to get you appreciated by fans, coaches, players or supervisors/partners IMO.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Yes poor word choice on my part. I meant there was no spot to displace him off of or movement to impede. Contact made by landing "on top" isn't going to move him further into the floor, certaingly isn't going to stand him up. Ball has no where to be except either between the bodies which means the ball is getting contact/tied up first or the ball is off the side but the defensive contact is not putting the offense at any immediate disadvantage. Unless players are carshing in from the side and dog piling just to create contact, then calling fouls on players diving on loose balls probably isn't going to get you appreciated by fans, coaches, players or supervisors/partners IMO.

I disagree 100% with this post. We aren't there for the appreciation of any of the people you mention. How about calling a foul on such a play in the interest of protecting player safety? That's actually a reason that officials are there.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

...calling fouls on players diving on loose balls probably isn't going to get you appreciated by fans, coaches, players or supervisors/partners IMO.

The original topic dealt with a player jumping on top of another player.
If this response is in reference with that situation it's the wrong aim; not just a poor word choice, a poor ethical choice.
Assessment of reason for officiating suggested. If that's what was meant.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Yes poor word choice on my part. I meant there was no spot to displace him off of or movement to impede. Contact made by landing "on top" isn't going to move him further into the floor, certainly isn't going to stand him up. Ball has no where to be except either between the bodies which means the ball is getting contact/tied up first or the ball is off the side but the defensive contact is not putting the offense at any immediate disadvantage. Unless players are crashing in from the side and dog piling just to create contact, then calling fouls on players diving on loose balls probably isn't going to get you appreciated by fans, coaches, players or supervisors/partners IMO.

Jumping on another player is a foul, every time.

If you want an advantage to consider, by jumping on the other player the jumper gained access to the ball they would not have otherwise. The advantage/disadvantage is not always the effect is has on the fouled player but the benefit gained by the fouling player.