To Another Player: "You F***ing Suck."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Whatever game I'm working, I avoid any type of conversation at all about any higher level ball I may work. Has nothing to do with that day's game.

Maybe, but in most associations, you know who the big dogs are. Here, in summer ball, there are a lot of guys who work state tournaments, college, etc. It's a large group, but not so large you don't know which guys are the ones you should listen to.

[rockyroad]

Not sure how "You f'ing suck" is not at least a T...and no problems at all with you tossing the kid.

Big Dawgs screw up sometimes, too.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

Maybe, but in most associations, you know who the big dogs are. Here, in summer ball, there are a lot of guys who work state tournaments, college, etc. It's a large group, but not so large you don't know which guys are the ones you should listen to.

Folks may or may not know what I work, but when I give advise I never bring ip where I work. I will say things like 'as you move up. . .' or 'as you officiate better athletes'.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Rooster

It happened when we got together to discuss next steps. There was some eye rolling and grimacing away from the bench that any official off the court would have noticed but other than that they weren't loud about it or making a scene. I mentioned in an earlier post that I wasn't happy about how they handled it but didn't want to fuss because I'm trying to learn 3 whistle mechanics. As I'm remembering how it went down I did say to both of them "Well I went with a flagrant." and did walk away, so at least I have a little dignity.

I guess that's about the best way to handle it -- probably just what I would have done like I said. I'd want to know what they thought ... I'd just want to know later after the game when there is more time for a discussion about the play.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Rooster

"You don't go with a flagrant there. You try that bulls**t in college and you'll have your games taken away or even get fired. That's just bad."

He may be right in college, but high school? Flagrant T.

Smaller dog: "A1's team had travelled two hours to be here. They paid to be here.

Irrelevant. Distance travelled is not a ticket to poor sportsmanship.

FWIW, I had a weekend soccer tournament last fall, and the team that traveled the furthest had the worst sportsmanship. I had to toss the coach in the fifth minute. A parent actually crossed the field to complain about the distance they travelled to see the coach get tossed. (He enjoyed getting tossed, too, until he learned that meant out of sight and sound.)

It cuts both ways. I had a men's charity tournament today. Two Ts, but they both shook my hand and apologized after their games. You smile and move on.

We got your back, Rooster. You did the right thing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Not sure how "You f'ing suck" is not at least a T...and no problems at all with you tossing the kid.

Big Dawgs screw up sometimes, too.

Agreed, but a Big Dawg screwing up shouldn't involve berating a newer official on the court, no matter how "privately" it was done.

[stick]

Originally Posted by Rooster

High school club teams. Team A was up by 20 points in the first half and Team B had no chance in this game. They were completely outclassed. According to one of my partners A1 was a dbag in a previous game and got a T. During our game he maintained our attention as a problem child but nothing past the point of just being on our radar. I had called a foul on him earlier and he tried the stare-down thing, which I ignored with a 1000 yard stare in another direction. Fast forward to a play to the basket and A1 makes a layup with a bit of contact, on which I pass. B1 says something chippy and A1, doing a backward skippy kind of trot says to B1, "You ain't nothing. You f***ing suck." as we were going up the court. Tweet, flagrant T. Partners don't like it as a flagrant AT ALL. The bigger dog on the game has college experience and ripped me thusly:
"You don't go with a flagrant there. You try that bulls**t in college and you'll have your games taken away or even get fired. That's just bad."
Smaller dog: "A1's team had travelled two hours to be here. They paid to be here. Let him hang himself and we'll run him with his second T."
etc, etc.

Evidently it was a big deal for running a kid for saying what he did. I would like to get a few other opinions about what is and is not a flagrant T.

Background: I am going to my first JC tryout camp this summer. I'm not a young pup but somewhat new to the officiating corps (with five years experience) and have nextlevelitis. I must admit, this shook my confidence in my judgement. I thought it was an easy one because the next steps would have resulted in a fight. I know there are no shortcuts but I'd like to learn the differences between junior college basketball players and coaches and the HS level so I'm not a doormat and then criticized for having no backbone.

Thoughts?

The "smaller dog" actually used the team traveled two hours to play excuse? I'm sorry but that doesn't give anyone from that team the right to taunt, cuss or trash talk. I hope the "big dog" didn't utter what he did toward you on the court.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Rooster

High school club teams. Team A was up by 20 points in the first half and Team B had no chance in this game. They were completely outclassed. According to one of my partners A1 was a dbag in a previous game and got a T. During our game he maintained our attention as a problem child but nothing past the point of just being on our radar. I had called a foul on him earlier and he tried the stare-down thing, which I ignored with a 1000 yard stare in another direction. Fast forward to a play to the basket and A1 makes a layup with a bit of contact, on which I pass. B1 says something chippy and A1, doing a backward skippy kind of trot says to B1, "You ain't nothing. You f***ing suck." as we were going up the court. Tweet, flagrant T. Partners don't like it as a flagrant AT ALL. The bigger dog on the game has college experience and ripped me thusly:
"You don't go with a flagrant there. You try that bulls**t in college and you'll have your games taken away or even get fired. That's just bad." Smaller dog: "A1's team had travelled two hours to be here. They paid to be here. Let him hang himself and we'll run him with his second T."
etc, etc.

Evidently it was a big deal for running a kid for saying what he did. I would like to get a few other opinions about what is and is not a flagrant T.

Background: I am going to my first JC tryout camp this summer. I'm not a young pup but somewhat new to the officiating corps (with five years experience) and have nextlevelitis. I must admit, this shook my confidence in my judgement. I thought it was an easy one because the next steps would have resulted in a fight. I know there are no shortcuts but I'd like to learn the differences between junior college basketball players and coaches and the HS level so I'm not a doormat and then criticized for having no backbone.

Thoughts?

Like others have said the advice you recieved seems sound. However, if Mr. Big dog came at me with this precieved attitude it makes him no better than the a-hole you bounced. A bully is a bully. Opportunities to learn are just that, and if he thinks himself a mentor he loses me immediately.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Adam

Agreed, but a Big Dawg screwing up shouldn't involve berating a newer official on the court, no matter how "privately" it was done.

That is pretty much what I was talking about...his screw up was in how he addressed his partner.

Originally Posted by j51969

Like others have said the advice you recieved seems sound. However, if Mr. Big dog came at me with this precieved attitude it makes him no better than the a-hole you bounced. A bully is a bully. Opportunities to learn are just that, and if he thinks himself a mentor he loses me immediately.

I had a game this year where one of my partners learned I was interested in working a college league that he used to work 3-4 years ago. He took it upon himself to "correct" several mechanical things that I did after the game. He said "if you want to work this league, you need to do things this way". The whole time I was thinking "who the hell are you to instruct me??" I smiled, said ok, and moved on.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I had a game this year where one of my partners learned I was interested in working a college league that he used to work 3-4 years ago. He took it upon himself to "correct" several mechanical things that I did after the game. He said "if you want to work this league, you need to do things this way". The whole time I was thinking "who the hell are you to instruct me??" I smiled, said ok, and moved on.

Even if he wasn't entirely correct, he may have been well intentioned and ust wanted to see you succeed. If you listen to him, he just might have the one thing that makes the difference in you getting in...or he might not. But considering it is harmless at worst. In my experience, I've seen far more officials lie (overly positive) about how you did than be honest and try to help each other. Why not thank him for the heads up.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I had a game this year where one of my partners learned I was interested in working a college league that he used to work 3-4 years ago. He took it upon himself to "correct" several mechanical things that I did after the game. He said "if you want to work this league, you need to do things this way". The whole time I was thinking "who the hell are you to instruct me??" I smiled, said ok, and moved on.

Officiating is like life, you pick up "pennies." That does not mean that everything he told you was on point, but if you take one or two things away from what he told you, you might have been better for it. But it sounds like your ego was more worried about what he wasn't and you probably missed a slight blessing. This is why attitude is sometimes everything. Take the wrong attitude you miss out on the right help.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I had a game this year where one of my partners learned I was interested in working a college league that he used to work 3-4 years ago. He took it upon himself to "correct" several mechanical things that I did after the game. He said "if you want to work this league, you need to do things this way". The whole time I was thinking "who the hell are you to instruct me??" I smiled, said ok, and moved on.

Unless there's more to the story, I don't see anything malicious here on your partner's part.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That is pretty much what I was talking about...his screw up was in how he addressed his partner.

Yeah, I know. I would just have a hard time not writing off everything else that guy said. I'd smile, nod, and say the right things, but the message would get lost with the messenger on this.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Officiating is like life, you pick up "pennies." That does not mean that everything he told you was on point, but if you take one or two things away from what he told you, you might have been better for it. But it sounds like your ego was more worried about what he wasn't and you probably missed a slight blessing. This is why attitude is sometimes everything. Take the wrong attitude you miss out on the right help.

Originally Posted by APG

Unless there's more to the story, I don't see anything malicious here on your partner's part.

The problem was his superior attitude. I know who to ask for advice, and when I ask I listen. I don't listen very often to unsolicited advice, cuz it's usually crap. And his was.