Wisconsin-Arizona Player Control Foul (Video)

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by fortmoney

I disagree with both of your takes

to accuse him of purposely ignoring a timeout request - who would do that? Those games are extremely loud and with that much at stake, who wouldn't be extremely locked in to the action. We've all had those situations where we either don't hear the coach, or can't tell what he wants (yelling "side-out" or something). I'm not sure what you have against Tony personally, but he's a hell of an official. And a lot of people must agree with me, otherwise he would not be calling an elite8 game between a 1 and 2.

come on, take off your tin foil hat

Watch the video of that play - even Ray Charles. An see Tony Greene running right past Coach Williams. The REAL problem is that Tony AND his partners didn't look at the UNC bench immediately after ISU scored. How can you possibly advance to the NCAA tournament as an official and NOT have game awareness that instinctively causes u to look at the bench immediately after a last second basket. It's so simple!!! It's unbelievable that not only didn't he look...HE RAN RIGHT PAST A COACH WHO SIGNALED AND CALLED FOR IT....

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

Great call if only you overlook the illegal sefensive contact that was creted by the defender moving INTO the path of the ball handler.

Which would have been called if he hadn't pushed off

Originally Posted by tomegun

I would like to see the play without being critical of the official or giving the official a pass because of who he is - just look at the play for what it is. When I looked at it initially, I thought the defender was moving into the offensive player. If it happened that way, and I was the offensive player, I would push off too, especially if I needed to get such a critical shot off. However, if the defender was legal, the push off should have been called.

"Coach, I was ready to call block until your guy pushed off".

If the defensive player does not initiate illegal contact, by rule it cannot be a defensive foul.

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

Watch the video of that play - even Ray Charles. An see Tony Greene running right past Coach Williams. The REAL problem is that Tony AND his partners didn't look at the UNC bench immediately after ISU scored. How can you possibly advance to the NCAA tournament as an official and NOT have game awareness that instinctively causes u to look at the bench immediately after a last second basket. It's so simple!!! It's unbelievable that not only didn't he look...HE RAN RIGHT PAST A COACH WHO SIGNALED AND CALLED FOR IT....

Boy are you going to look like an idiot when he's crew chief in the semis, or in the final

[Adam]

Reminder/warning:
criticizing a play is ok

broadly demeaning an official and his abilities is not

[APG]

[Adam]

After watching the replay, I see a defender with LGP moving laterally and towards the end line as the dribbler closes the gap. I like that call.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by APG

If you all will harken back to last year when Seth Davis ran that "block or charge" quiz on his blog in conjunction with NCAA Director of Officiating John Adams...Adams focused on plays EXACTLY like this - and commented that officials were calling it wrong much of the time.

This was a great call. And it's why Tony Greene has been in the national championship game three or four times.

[tomegun]

I looked at the video, looked up the definition of lateral (just to make sure I'm not crazy), looked at the video again and asked my wife to look at the video. If someone can move laterally while their body is moving in the direction they are facing, and they take one step in that direction prior to contact, then yes I agree the player was moving laterally.

This play could make the NCAA video for next season. Tough play in a tough situation.

I purposely didn't mention the official or past accomplishments as that has no bearing on a discussion about the call to me.

[APG]

I've got a foul on the defender for moving forward into the dribbler prior to the push off by the dribbler.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by APG

I've got a foul on the defender for moving forward into the dribbler prior to the push off by the dribbler.

So do I for the same reason. I see W21 moving into F13 before the push by F13.

I also have continuation on the play.

Originally Posted by tomegun

I purposely didn't mention the official or past accomplishments as that has no bearing on a discussion about the call to me.

Agreed.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by APG

I've got a foul on the defender for moving forward into the dribbler prior to the push off by the dribbler.

Agreed. Like the Michigan St. game, the big push off was retaliation for the initial contact.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I looked at the video, looked up the definition of lateral (just to make sure I'm not crazy), looked at the video again and asked my wife to look at the video. If someone can move laterally while their body is moving in the direction they are facing, and they take one step in that direction prior to contact, then yes I agree the player was moving laterally.

This play could make the NCAA video for next season. Tough play in a tough situation.

I purposely didn't mention the official or past accomplishments as that has no bearing on a discussion about the call to me.

Very objective and fair of you. Given that you most likely know Tony from your days in the DC area, I applaud your effort to try to eliminate the personal aspect of the people involved and just examine the basketball elements of the play.
This is the manner in which all of us should be viewing these videos and refraining from leveling personal accusations against any of the officials involved. I thank Tomegun for leading us in the right direction as we strive to learn and improve ourselves. Let's do so with class.

Originally Posted by APG

I've got a foul on the defender for moving forward into the dribbler prior to the push off by the dribbler.

It is difficult for me to tell if the defender simply played strong and physical defense while both players were moving or if he created illegal contact.
I'll wait until I can watch the video on a screen bigger than 2"x3".

[blindzebra]

Block happened first.

The defender was draped over the offensive player to the point his arm pit was touching his head.

[Johnny Ringo]

This seems to be a coin toss amongst officials. For me, the coin lands on "I like the call" that was made.

I think this is an ant/elephant play. The ant is the illegal contact by the defender. The elephant is the push-off by the offensive player.

[Adam]

Looking at the defender's feet in frame-by-frame, it really looks to me like he's moving towards the end line with each step, and not towards the dribbler. The dribbler is closing the distance, but that doesn't mean the defender is moving "towards the dribbler".