Arbiter Mandate

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'd like to see how many of those who preach about integrity don't bother claiming officiating income on their taxes unless they're forced to.

I'd like to see how this integrity plays out in the rest of life as well: not just officiating income or even taxes.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'd like to see how this integrity plays out in the rest of life as well: not just officiating income or even taxes.

And that is why it cracks me up when people try to act like if someone takes some cash and does not report it, that we have violated some moral code.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

People that are self-employed or run some kind of business often take advantage of any rules that allow them to not pay taxes. That is not unusual to officiating. And often those advantages are not illegal. I do not know about you, but it would be really hard to make $600 at any one school. That least time I did it was when I was working baseball and I worked a game in each of my seasons at a particular college. Otherwise it is nearly impossible to work that many times at any school and especially at the high school level. Too many schools for that to happen (then again my area does not have one assignor for an entire association). I do not begrudge officials to take the same advantages they can when it comes to being an independent contractor and not getting a W2 from a business.

I have been in sales for year and I did the very same thing to take advantage of things to ultimately not pay things I could write off. Officiating is not special in that respect.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And that is why it cracks me up when people try to act like if someone takes some cash and does not report it, that we have violated some moral code.

Peace

So, you're advocating that tax evasion is OK? What does that say about the honesty/integrity of the official?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

So, you're advocating that tax evasion is OK? What does that say about the honesty/integrity of the official?

I am not advocating anything but following the law. And the law helps people that are self-employed out to benefit from their income stream. If you were paying attention or talk to a tax attorney or tax professional, you might realize this on your own. And that is why other tax provisions in this country are seen as unfair when big business for example get all kinds of tax breaks to avoid paying money out of their pocket anymore than they already do than the average working person.

But as usual Camron, you sound like a woman I once dated, that takes the worst part of what someone says instead of actually understanding what I tried to say here. Schools in my area appear to already report what they pay to officials as independent contractors (and all states do not have the same laws or expectations as well). So maybe in your state you do not get the kind of consideration that I might or have to file the same paperwork for all kinds of reasons. And what people claim is not about overall integrity. I know a lot of other things officials do in their lives I would question more than how they file taxes. But that is me.

Peace

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not advocating anything but following the law. And the law helps people that are self-employed out to benefit from their income stream.

Agreed, which is why I advocate claiming all of the deductions you can legally in addition to reporting your income. In most cases for amateur officials, the actual amount of income from officiating to be taxed is fairly minimal.

I also don't think anybody is disputing that.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And what people claim is not about overall integrity.

It is a component and not necessarily a large one but it is.

And I figured we're all talking about what is done at the Federal level so yes it would be the same. I don't know or care about what's done at the state level that has no impact me at all.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

It is a component and not necessarily a large one but it is.

And I figured we're all talking about what is done at the Federal level so yes it would be the same. I don't know or care about what's done at the state level that has no impact me at all.

Well I do not recall that we only mentioned Federal or State Taxes and it does affect everyone in a similar way. Some might not have to file State income taxes at all and that is not a bad thing, but if I file my income, I have to consider both. Both have different penalties and benefits. And if I am accepting state funded money and they file paperwork to show what they have paid out, I might have to answer to them at some point.

Peace

[johnnyg08]

Guys, I think the discussion is a good discussion...we will keep the thread open as long as it remains a non-personal discussion.

At this point, it's one poorly worded post away from being locked.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not advocating anything but following the law. And the law helps people that are self-employed out to benefit from their income stream. If you were paying attention or talk to a tax attorney or tax professional, you might realize this on your own. And that is why other tax provisions in this country are seen as unfair when big business for example get all kinds of tax breaks to avoid paying money out of their pocket anymore than they already do than the average working person.

But as usual Camron, you sound like a woman I once dated, that takes the worst part of what someone says instead of actually understanding what I tried to say here. Schools in my area appear to already report what they pay to officials as independent contractors (and all states do not have the same laws or expectations as well). So maybe in your state you do not get the kind of consideration that I might or have to file the same paperwork for all kinds of reasons. And what people claim is not about overall integrity. I know a lot of other things officials do in their lives I would question more than how they file taxes. But that is me.

Peace

If you had even half way comprehended what I was saying, you wouldn't have even gone there. But, lacking that, you make an issue where there is none, again.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not advocating anything but following the law. And the law helps people that are self-employed out to benefit from their income stream. If you were paying attention or talk to a tax attorney or tax professional, you might realize this on your own. And that is why other tax provisions in this country are seen as unfair when big business for example get all kinds of tax breaks to avoid paying money out of their pocket anymore than they already do than the average working person.

But as usual Camron, you sound like a woman I once dated, that takes the worst part of what someone says instead of actually understanding what I tried to say here. Schools in my area appear to already report what they pay to officials as independent contractors (and all states do not have the same laws or expectations as well). So maybe in your state you do not get the kind of consideration that I might or have to file the same paperwork for all kinds of reasons. And what people claim is not about overall integrity. I know a lot of other things officials do in their lives I would question more than how they file taxes. But that is me.

Peace

I think we can make our point w/o name calling or obnoxious simile.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I think we can make our point w/o name calling or obnoxious simile.

I feel my comments are appropriate to the person and the accusation being made. If you want to take the moral high ground about this or other issues, you have to be willing to discuss the person personally. Sorry, he sounded like someone I knew with his comment.

Peace

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I feel my comments are appropriate to the person and the accusation being made. If you want to take the moral high ground about this or other issues, you have to be willing to discuss the person personally. Sorry, he sounded like someone I knew with his comment.

Peace

You're entitled to your opinion. Keep having the discussion just don't make it personal.

I think all mods are on board with my take on things. So do as you wish, but the leash is short.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I feel my comments are appropriate to the person and the accusation being made. If you want to take the moral high ground about this or other issues, you have to be willing to discuss the person personally. Sorry, he sounded like someone I knew with his comment.

Peace

Everything I said was 100% factual...accusing no one specifically. The only ones who would feel accused would be those who actually are cheating on their taxes. I don't like taxes any more than you, but not liking taxes is not the same as cheating on them. And, for those, the accusation would be valid. If you feel accused perhaps you should amend your tax forms to fix that rather than attacking others who merely point out the facts of the situation.

You replied with a bunch of noise about state tax requirement, how hard it would be to get to $600, or what info schools collect, and people having the right to try to save money legally. None of that has anything whatsoever to do with the actual point of people deliberately and illegally under-reporting income and hoping to get away with it either because they got paid in cash or they were under the 1099 limits that would force the paying party to report the income to the IRS and how going to electronic payment systems makes it harder or impossible for people to cheat.

Someone would say the sky is blue and you'd go off on why they might not be right because the rivers and lakes in your area are brown or green.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And that is why it cracks me up when people try to act like if someone takes some cash and does not report it, that we have violated some moral code.

Peace

I guess you can feel to crack up then.

If someone takes cash and doesn't report it, you have violated some moral code (you're stealing from the government) ... oh ... and you've violated the law as well.

[johnny d]

My moral code tells me that federal, state, and local governments are all corrupt and wastefully spend my money on things I do not support. Therefore, I have no problem taking whatever steps necessary to deny them access to as much of my money as possible.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by johnny d

My moral code tells me that federal, state, and local governments are all corrupt and wastefully spend my money on things I do not support. Therefore, I have no problem taking whatever steps necessary to deny them access to as much of my money as possible.

I agree....but only so far as it is legal. Not reporting income isn't one of the ways to do so. Avoiding making over $600 from a source so you can get away with not reporting it is illegal any way you slice it. Instead, why not just report it and go to someone's house (someone who is on or needs government assistance) while he isn't looking and take $100 from his wallet. That is essentially the same thing.

The legal and correct way to do it is to claim all the defections from the income that you can...mileage, meals, uniforms, camps, etc. And then stop voting in those that waste your money.