Arbiter Mandate

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And that is why it cracks me up when people try to act like if someone takes some cash and does not report it, that we have violated some moral code.

Peace

I guess you can feel to crack up then.

If someone takes cash and doesn't report it, you have violated some moral code (you're stealing from the government) ... oh ... and you've violated the law as well.

[johnny d]

My moral code tells me that federal, state, and local governments are all corrupt and wastefully spend my money on things I do not support. Therefore, I have no problem taking whatever steps necessary to deny them access to as much of my money as possible.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by johnny d

My moral code tells me that federal, state, and local governments are all corrupt and wastefully spend my money on things I do not support. Therefore, I have no problem taking whatever steps necessary to deny them access to as much of my money as possible.

I agree....but only so far as it is legal. Not reporting income isn't one of the ways to do so. Avoiding making over $600 from a source so you can get away with not reporting it is illegal any way you slice it. Instead, why not just report it and go to someone's house (someone who is on or needs government assistance) while he isn't looking and take $100 from his wallet. That is essentially the same thing.

The legal and correct way to do it is to claim all the defections from the income that you can...mileage, meals, uniforms, camps, etc. And then stop voting in those that waste your money.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I agree....but only so far as it is legal. Not reporting income isn't one of the ways to do so. Avoiding making over $600 from a source so you can get away with not reporting it is illegal any way you slice it. Instead, why not just report it and go to someone's house (someone who is on or needs government assistance) while he isn't looking and take $100 from his wallet. That is essentially the same thing.

The legal and correct way to do it is to claim all the defections from the income that you can...mileage, meals, uniforms, camps, etc. And then stop voting in those that waste your money.

Perhaps not so illegal. I consider myself a conscientious objector. How so you ask. Here is one example. In my moral code, abortion is just another term for murder. Just to clarify, this isn't a religious problem for me, I do not belong to or follow any religion. I understand the law says this procedure is legal and people are entitled to undergo this procedure. However, I do not believe my money should be used support a person's ability to undergo this procedure. Therefore, I will use any and all means necessary to send as little or none of my money to any government agency that will then use my money to promote or facilitate businesses that perform this procedure.

Give me the address of the guy who needs government support and still has $100 sitting around in his wallet, so I can go ask him for some of my money back.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Perhaps not so illegal. I consider myself a conscientious objector. How so you ask. Here is one example. In my moral code, abortion is just another term for murder. Just to clarify, this isn't a religious problem for me, I do not belong to or follow any religion. I understand the law says this procedure is legal and people are entitled to undergo this procedure. However, I do not believe my money should be used support a person's ability to undergo this procedure. Therefore, I will use any and all means necessary to send as little or none of my money to any government agency that will then use my money to promote or facilitate businesses that perform this procedure.

Give me the address of the guy who needs government support and still has $100 sitting around in his wallet, so I can go ask him for some of my money back.

I don't disagree with you on your right to object to certain things the government use some money for. However, I'm guessing that, for every 1 of those things where you have a fundamental objection, there are 100 other things that are provided by the government that you use and do not object to.

The right way to oppose things is not to lie about your income and cheat on your taxes. That is always illegal, even if you can get away with it because it was under the $600 limit that triggers documentation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

It is a component and not necessarily a large one but it is.

And I figured we're all talking about what is done at the Federal level so yes it would be the same. I don't know or care about what's done at the state level that has no impact me at all.

Well I do not recall that we only mentioned Federal or State Taxes and it does affect everyone in a similar way. Some might not have to file State income taxes at all and that is not a bad thing, but if I file my income, I have to consider both. Both have different penalties and benefits. And if I am accepting state funded money and they file paperwork to show what they have paid out, I might have to answer to them at some point.

Peace

[johnnyg08]

Guys, I think the discussion is a good discussion...we will keep the thread open as long as it remains a non-personal discussion.

At this point, it's one poorly worded post away from being locked.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I think we can make our point w/o name calling or obnoxious simile.

I feel my comments are appropriate to the person and the accusation being made. If you want to take the moral high ground about this or other issues, you have to be willing to discuss the person personally. Sorry, he sounded like someone I knew with his comment.

Peace

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I feel my comments are appropriate to the person and the accusation being made. If you want to take the moral high ground about this or other issues, you have to be willing to discuss the person personally. Sorry, he sounded like someone I knew with his comment.

Peace

You're entitled to your opinion. Keep having the discussion just don't make it personal.

I think all mods are on board with my take on things. So do as you wish, but the leash is short.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Welpe

If it streamlines the process and gets me paid quicker, fine by me!

When RefPay was implemented for HS games in my area, we went from getting a check or cash at the game site to having to wait for 1 - 3 days for the money to hit RefPay, then another 2-5 days to transfer it to my bank account.

So, for us, it extends the time it takes to get paid.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

You're entitled to your opinion. Keep having the discussion just don't make it personal.

I think all mods are on board with my take on things. So do as you wish, but the leash is short.

If that is personal, then you have not been doing a great job reading this board on a regular basis(and I rarely see you comment on this site). That was very mild compared to other things stated. Just sayin.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I suppose your point is that you claim a mileage deduction from home to the game site regardless of whether you actually drove from home. Is this legal?

I'm a chemist, not an accountant. For convenience, and simplicity reasons, not for purposes of cheating, I pull my mileage off of Arbiter, and double it. 75% of the time I actually do go home, for all of my Catholic middle school games, and many of my high school games. In some cases I will drive by my house on my way to a high school game without actually stopping by the house (to save time). I don't include my mileage to, and from, meetings, just my games. It comes close to evening out in the end, and I can sleep at night. I claim every single penny that I earn, cash, checks, high schools, Catholic middle schools. I pay both state, and federal, income taxes, and Social Security taxes. I'm not sure many basketball officials can make the last two statements with an straight face, at least here in my little corner of Connecticut. I tell guys around here that I pay taxes on my officiating income and they look at me like I'm from Mars.

[BillyMac]

From the IAABO (International) website:

Tax Records - Officiating is an avocation that carries with it a need for a high level of integrity. Part of carrying out this high standard is meeting your responsibility to society, in general, by paying your taxes. It is equally wrong to overpay taxes and preventing overpayment begins with great records.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I feel my comments are appropriate to the person and the accusation being made. If you want to take the moral high ground about this or other issues, you have to be willing to discuss the person personally. Sorry, he sounded like someone I knew with his comment.

Peace

Everything I said was 100% factual...accusing no one specifically. The only ones who would feel accused would be those who actually are cheating on their taxes. I don't like taxes any more than you, but not liking taxes is not the same as cheating on them. And, for those, the accusation would be valid. If you feel accused perhaps you should amend your tax forms to fix that rather than attacking others who merely point out the facts of the situation.

You replied with a bunch of noise about state tax requirement, how hard it would be to get to $600, or what info schools collect, and people having the right to try to save money legally. None of that has anything whatsoever to do with the actual point of people deliberately and illegally under-reporting income and hoping to get away with it either because they got paid in cash or they were under the 1099 limits that would force the paying party to report the income to the IRS and how going to electronic payment systems makes it harder or impossible for people to cheat.

Someone would say the sky is blue and you'd go off on why they might not be right because the rivers and lakes in your area are brown or green.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

So, you're advocating that tax evasion is OK? What does that say about the honesty/integrity of the official?

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Everything I said was 100% factual...accusing no one specifically. The only ones who would feel accused would be those who actually are cheating on their taxes. I don't like taxes any more than you, but not liking taxes is not the same as cheating on them. And, for those, the accusation would be valid. If you feel accused perhaps you should amend your tax forms to fix that rather than attacking others who merely point out the facts of the situation.

You replied with a bunch of noise about state tax requirement, how hard it would be to get to $600, or what info schools collect, and people having the right to try to save money legally. None of that has anything whatsoever to do with the actual point of people deliberately and illegally under-reporting income and hoping to get away with it either because they got paid in cash or they were under the 1099 limits that would force the paying party to report the income to the IRS and how going to electronic payment systems makes it harder or impossible for people to cheat.

Call it dishonest, cheating or whatever else you like. I am not worried about an accusation, nor am I offended. Point out the facts as you see them and make your case, using whatever language you want. I am a constant advocate for the elimination of the pervasive political correctness that is forced upon us both here and in real life. I have my reasons for doing what I do and I am comfortable with them. Nothing you or anyone else here says is going to change my stance in this matter. However, before you start questioning other peoples integrity, you should make sure you are one of the select few people who follows all rules and laws all the time. Anything less, just makes you a hypocrite.