Arbiter Mandate

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'd like to see how many of those who preach about integrity don't bother claiming officiating income on their taxes unless they're forced to.

Exactly.

And even a lawyer I know tells fellow officials to claim a lot of things legally so that you get write-offs and not really be taxed or have to pay based on that income. And when you consider a lot of things like dry-cleaning or meals after a game, many of us are not really making a killing officiating games at $60-$70 a pop. I know I am lucky if the money I make does not do much more than pay expenses for the year than anything.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'd like to see how many of those who preach about integrity don't bother claiming officiating income on their taxes unless they're forced to.

Indeed. I claim everything I make from all sources regardless of how small. I don't leave anything out on purpose. If I have missed some income, and it very well could have happened, it is due to an error rather than a deliberate action. I don't have a lot of respect for those that consciously choose to not report their income, particularly those who stop taking games once they get near $600 from a source so they can avoid having it get reported.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I know I am lucky if the money I make does not do much more than pay expenses for the year than anything.

Because I purchased three new pairs of shoes this past season, two pairs of Zigs for high school games, and a pair of "walkers" for Catholic middle school games, plus a new equipment bag, I didn't "make" enough money to pay Social Security taxes.

Note: If anybody asks, I always go home to get my bag after work, no matter how close the game is to my day job.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Indeed. I claim everything I make from all sources regardless of how small. I don't leave anything out on purpose. If I have missed some income, and it very well could have happened, it is due to an error rather than a deliberate action. I don't have a lot of respect for those that consciously choose to not report their income, particularly those who stop taking games once they get near $600 from a source so they can avoid having it get reported.

People that are self-employed or run some kind of business often take advantage of any rules that allow them to not pay taxes. That is not unusual to officiating. And often those advantages are not illegal. I do not know about you, but it would be really hard to make $600 at any one school. That least time I did it was when I was working baseball and I worked a game in each of my seasons at a particular college. Otherwise it is nearly impossible to work that many times at any school and especially at the high school level. Too many schools for that to happen (then again my area does not have one assignor for an entire association). I do not begrudge officials to take the same advantages they can when it comes to being an independent contractor and not getting a W2 from a business.

I have been in sales for year and I did the very same thing to take advantage of things to ultimately not pay things I could write off. Officiating is not special in that respect.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'd like to see how many of those who preach about integrity don't bother claiming officiating income on their taxes unless they're forced to.

I'd like to see how this integrity plays out in the rest of life as well: not just officiating income or even taxes.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'd like to see how this integrity plays out in the rest of life as well: not just officiating income or even taxes.

And that is why it cracks me up when people try to act like if someone takes some cash and does not report it, that we have violated some moral code.

Peace

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

People that are self-employed or run some kind of business often take advantage of any rules that allow them to not pay taxes. That is not unusual to officiating. And often those advantages are not illegal.

That is absolutely true and if legal, I have no problem with it.

What Camron is saying is that there are officials who will stop taking assignments from a certain entity if they know they are close to hitting $600 which will require a 1099 to be generated by law. They are doing this to reduce the actual records of the income they make because they more than likely aren't claiming what isn't reported on a 1099.

Remember, regardless of whether a 1099 is issued or not, you're legally required to claim that income. The $600 threshold was implemented to reduce the paperwork burden on entities paying small sums infrequently to independent contractors.

I do not know about you, but it would be really hard to make $600 at any one school.

I can see that if you're paid by each school. Here we are paid by the district for public school games. I'm usually good for 1-2 1099s a year in the districts I work the most.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Note: If anybody asks, I always go home to get my bag after work, no matter how close the game is to my day job.

As far as I can recall, nobody ever asks here, but you have posted this numerous times. I suppose your point is that you claim a mileage deduction from home to the game site regardless of whether you actually drove from home. Is this legal?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

That is absolutely true and if legal, I have no problem with it.

What Camron is saying is that there are officials who will stop taking assignments from a certain entity if they know they are close to hitting $600 which will require a 1099 to be generated by law. They are doing this to reduce the actual records of the income they make because they more than likely aren't claiming what isn't reported on a 1099.

Remember, regardless of whether a 1099 is issued or not, you're legally required to claim that income. The $600 threshold was implemented to reduce the paperwork burden on entities paying small sums infrequently to independent contractors.

OK, but is that not their choice? BTW, most schools I have to file paper work no matter what I am getting paid for a single contest. So it does not matter if I get to the $600 or not, I still have money paid on file by that school and I would suspect reported properly. The $600 is only required by law, for that particular amount if they pay you. A W9 might be asked of you by someone that pays you money anyway. I cannot even get paid in most cases if I do not have one on file at most school districts.

Originally Posted by Welpe

TI can see that if you're paid by each school. Here we are paid by the district for public school games. I'm usually good for 1-2 1099s a year in the districts I work the most.

Well schools are under the jurisdiction of the district. And each district decides how each school pays out money. Many the school district pays through the district office and does not come directly from HS A as an example. And once again, it is rare that I would work that much in one school or district where it would matter. But that still means I would have to file paperwork before I get paid. Half the time we do not see checks until weeks or in some cases months later after the contest. So someone is making us jump through some hoops to get money.

My point is ultimately that is the choice of each individual how they do their business. And many have been audited as a result. Mostly those that pay out money have run into that, rather than just a working official.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

People that are self-employed or run some kind of business often take advantage of any rules that allow them to not pay taxes. That is not unusual to officiating. And often those advantages are not illegal. I do not know about you, but it would be really hard to make $600 at any one school. That least time I did it was when I was working baseball and I worked a game in each of my seasons at a particular college. Otherwise it is nearly impossible to work that many times at any school and especially at the high school level. Too many schools for that to happen (then again my area does not have one assignor for an entire association). I do not begrudge officials to take the same advantages they can when it comes to being an independent contractor and not getting a W2 from a business.

I have been in sales for year and I did the very same thing to take advantage of things to ultimately not pay things I could write off. Officiating is not special in that respect.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And that is why it cracks me up when people try to act like if someone takes some cash and does not report it, that we have violated some moral code.

Peace

So, you're advocating that tax evasion is OK? What does that say about the honesty/integrity of the official?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

OK, but is that not their choice?

Of course it is but the motivation is almost always to avoid having what they are paid reported because they aren't claiming it themselves. I've heard as much from several officials personally.

I file a W-9 with every district or private school I work but that doesn't mean they report what they pay me. If they do report it via a 1099, I will get a copy. They don't have to send in a 1099 if they pay me less than $600 but they can if they want to. Most don't because they want to avoid the extra paper work burden themselves but I suspect this will change.

My point is ultimately that is the choice of each individual how they do their business. And many have been audited as a result.

Absolutely and unfortunately many choose to conduct their business in ways that run afoul of the law. As somebody that pays what is required of him to Uncle Sam, I tend to take a dim view towards those that think they don't have to.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

So, you're advocating that tax evasion is OK? What does that say about the honesty/integrity of the official?

I am not advocating anything but following the law. And the law helps people that are self-employed out to benefit from their income stream. If you were paying attention or talk to a tax attorney or tax professional, you might realize this on your own. And that is why other tax provisions in this country are seen as unfair when big business for example get all kinds of tax breaks to avoid paying money out of their pocket anymore than they already do than the average working person.

But as usual Camron, you sound like a woman I once dated, that takes the worst part of what someone says instead of actually understanding what I tried to say here. Schools in my area appear to already report what they pay to officials as independent contractors (and all states do not have the same laws or expectations as well). So maybe in your state you do not get the kind of consideration that I might or have to file the same paperwork for all kinds of reasons. And what people claim is not about overall integrity. I know a lot of other things officials do in their lives I would question more than how they file taxes. But that is me.

Peace

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not advocating anything but following the law. And the law helps people that are self-employed out to benefit from their income stream.

Agreed, which is why I advocate claiming all of the deductions you can legally in addition to reporting your income. In most cases for amateur officials, the actual amount of income from officiating to be taxed is fairly minimal.

I also don't think anybody is disputing that.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And what people claim is not about overall integrity.

It is a component and not necessarily a large one but it is.

And I figured we're all talking about what is done at the Federal level so yes it would be the same. I don't know or care about what's done at the state level that has no impact me at all.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not advocating anything but following the law. And the law helps people that are self-employed out to benefit from their income stream. If you were paying attention or talk to a tax attorney or tax professional, you might realize this on your own. And that is why other tax provisions in this country are seen as unfair when big business for example get all kinds of tax breaks to avoid paying money out of their pocket anymore than they already do than the average working person.

But as usual Camron, you sound like a woman I once dated, that takes the worst part of what someone says instead of actually understanding what I tried to say here. Schools in my area appear to already report what they pay to officials as independent contractors (and all states do not have the same laws or expectations as well). So maybe in your state you do not get the kind of consideration that I might or have to file the same paperwork for all kinds of reasons. And what people claim is not about overall integrity. I know a lot of other things officials do in their lives I would question more than how they file taxes. But that is me.

Peace

If you had even half way comprehended what I was saying, you wouldn't have even gone there. But, lacking that, you make an issue where there is none, again.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not advocating anything but following the law. And the law helps people that are self-employed out to benefit from their income stream. If you were paying attention or talk to a tax attorney or tax professional, you might realize this on your own. And that is why other tax provisions in this country are seen as unfair when big business for example get all kinds of tax breaks to avoid paying money out of their pocket anymore than they already do than the average working person.

But as usual Camron, you sound like a woman I once dated, that takes the worst part of what someone says instead of actually understanding what I tried to say here. Schools in my area appear to already report what they pay to officials as independent contractors (and all states do not have the same laws or expectations as well). So maybe in your state you do not get the kind of consideration that I might or have to file the same paperwork for all kinds of reasons. And what people claim is not about overall integrity. I know a lot of other things officials do in their lives I would question more than how they file taxes. But that is me.

Peace

I think we can make our point w/o name calling or obnoxious simile.