"blarge call" high school

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

belong to the official whose area the play is moving into.

And when it is moving right along the line between the areas and not into or out of either area?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And when it is moving right along the line between the areas and not into or out of either area?

First one to the table.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And when it is moving right along the line between the areas and not into or out of either area?

If this little mini-event was the only time blarge was called, then we wouldn't really have an issue - and the purpose for the "Tie goes to the nobody" rule here would make sense.

But it's not. It's used as a "Gee, I don't know" call FAR too often.

[Welpe]

And sometimes the drive starts and ends in your area and your partner has a late whistle and signal you don't even hear or see.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If this little mini-event was the only time blarge was called, then we wouldn't really have an issue - and the purpose for the "Tie goes to the nobody" rule here would make sense.

But it's not. It's used as a "Gee, I don't know" call FAR too often.

Yes, that is an infrequent event but deciding which side of the line it happened on when it is a more typical situation is just as much a judgement call as the call itself. No matter how you slice it, any call near the change of primaries will be subject to double whistles. Short of restraint in making the call, you'll always have cases where the officials disagree and even disagree about who's primary it was really in. One has a charge, one has a block. Each claim it was in their primary, what do you do then?

No matter how you try to resolve this based on PCA's, it will always be flawed because there can be debate about where it actually occurred. And even if you fix that, it is still flawed because there is no guarantee that he one you default was the right one....probably about 50% chance.

I think it is better to stick both with a foul rather than the wrong one while the one that really deserved it gets nothing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If this little mini-event was the only time blarge was called, then we wouldn't really have an issue - and the purpose for the "Tie goes to the nobody" rule here would make sense.

But it's not. It's used as a "Gee, I don't know" call FAR too often.

Often? I've had exactly one of these in my career. One. In a summer game.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

So on a play in an area of intersection the officials should...?

As was mentioned, the way to avoid them - all of them - is keep the fist up but don't make a preliminary signal.

I had one of these in my GV game (NCAAW 3-person mechanics) last week. I'm L on a semi-fast break. Crash takes place in the lane but on C's half. I wait a beat since my C was recovering to get to her area. I blow my whistle and raise my fist then I hear her whistle and I freeze. I look at her and yell "take it" since I know it's her primary and she calls the PC (which is what I had). It was a little clumsy because of the delay and Team A's HC wasn't thrilled, especially since his team was down 25, but the next time I was in front of him I quietly explained that it looked awkward but I stopped because I heard another whistle.

I left 2% for a reason

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I think that we can divide this debate into two separate discussions:

1) The rule that defines Guarding.

2) How do we handle double whistles in general and a "blarge" in particular.


Discussion (1) is the easy discussion. We just know from our office in an "ivy covered, academic tower" that a "blarge" cannot exist. By rule there cannot be a "blarge". B-1 has either obtained (NFHS)/established (NCAA/FIBA) a LGP before contact between A-1 and B-1 occurs, or B-1 has not obtained/established a LGP.

Discussion (2) is about how we make our "big bucks" in the trenches when officiating a real game and not discussing hypothetical situations.

Double whistles are going to happen but hopefully we can keep them to a minimum. How we handle double whistles depends to some degree is determined by whether the game is a two-man crew of a three-man crew. They have two different philosophies to some degree. Two-man: It means that the vast majority of the time there should be one pair of eyes officiating on the ball and one pair of eyes officiating off the ball. Three-man: It means ,that depending upon position of the ball: there can be two pairs of eyes officiating on the ball and one pair of eyes officiating off the ball, OR, there can be one pair of eyes officiating on the ball and two pairs officiating of the ball.

The vast of majority of us have attended enough camps and we know that there are as many theories as to how to handle double whistles as there are camps.

I am not going to comment on the ways to handle double whistles that have been mentioned in the thread; but having a good pre-game goes a long way in reducing double whistles and how to handle the few double whistles that happen in one's game.

My concern in this thread is that the double whistle is a "blarge". The NFHS and NCAA Men's committees have given us, which in my humble () opinion a very unsatisfactory way to handle such a situation. While the NCAA Women's Committee recognizes (I will refrain from any snarky remarks, .) that by rule a "blarge" cannot happen and gives us guidelines as to how to solve the problem.

As a student of the rules of the game, it just makes my skin crawl, when I think of how the NFHS and the NCAA Men's committees want us to handle a "blarge". Their solution is not logical; it is not rational; nor can it be defended by rule. And everybody knows how I feel about interpretations that cannot be defended by rule, .

I have a story about a "blarge" that occurred in a boys' H.S. varsity game in Michigan about twenty years ago, but this post has gone on long enough.

MTD, Sr.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that "blarges" happen more often in games officiated with three-man crews as opposed to two-man crews.

I may take you up on this bet. Depending on the conversion rate of dollars TO donuts.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Welpe

... whistle and signal you don't even hear or see.

That's the absolute worst situation with a double whistle. I've had a couple of these over the years. I don't hear my partner's whistle. I sell my call with a strong preliminary signal, and all of a sudden, as the players part like the Red Sea, I see my partner also giving a preliminary signal. Luckily, we've always had the same signal. Someday the signals won't be the same. We could pregame the heck out of this situation, but the bottom line would be that we would have go to the caseplay.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's the absolute worst situation with a double whistle. I've had a couple of these over the years. I don't hear my partner's whistle. I sell my call with a strong preliminary signal, and all of a sudden, as the players part like the Red Sea, I see my partner also giving a preliminary signal. Luckily, we've always had the same signal. Someday the signals won't be the same. We could pregame the heck out of this situation, but the bottom line would be that we would have go to the caseplay.

A few years ago, I had one like this, except we both reported without the other's knowledge.

I was C, table side, and A1 charges into B1 just outside the paint on my side, right along the endline. I ship it the other way. Neither of us heard the other's whistle, and he came out from L, opposite, and reported as I was turning around to report from within a few feet of my C position.

We got lucky, in that we both reported the same foul. Only later did our third come up and inform us that we had both reported that foul.

[just another ref]

Only one I ever had, partner and I had opposite signals. I didn't see his, but he saw mine. He dropped his hands and walked away. Coach saw it and asked him: "What did y'all do, flip a coin?" Partner explained that it was my call. End of discussion.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by deecee

I may take you up on this bet. Depending on the conversion rate of dollars TO donuts.

I wrote that sentence without having my brain connected to my fingers. What I should have said is:

That I would bet dollars to donuts that there are more double whistles in a three-man game than there in a two-man game because of court coverage, but that there are more "blarges" called in a two-man game because more often that not double whistles in two-man games are the result of officials who are ball watchers.

But you can still have a dozen donuts on me at the nearest Tim Horton's, .

MTD, Sr.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

...the NCAA Women's Committee recognizes (I will refrain from any snarky remarks, .) that by rule a "blarge" cannot happen and gives us guidelines as to how to solve the problem.

As a student of the rules of the game, it just makes my skin crawl, when I think of how the NFHS and the NCAA Men's committees want us to handle a "blarge". Their solution is not logical; it is not rational; nor can it be defended by rule. And everybody knows how I feel about interpretations that cannot be defended by rule, .

MTDS, you can be a snarky as you want. Just keep that "not logical" line in there about NFHS/NCAAM and I'm good.

[Rich]

I had one in a junior college game a few years ago. T called a charge on a play that was in the paint (I was the L - it was mine all day and twice Sunday) and was the most obvious block one could ever see.

When I looked in the direction of the C a few seconds after the double foul was reported, he started laughing and couldn't stop for a few minutes.