poor communication on free throw administration

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

If the official informs them its 2 shots then the ball is dead on the miss and you go to the AP arrow.

If say you shot 2 and the first was a miss then this is a correctable error.

Neither of these statements is correct.
If both teams ignore the erroneous info provided by the official and go for the ball, it remains live.
This is not one of the five correctable errors.

There is a specific case book play instructing how to handle it and that is to whistle it dead ASAP if only one team or neither team attempts to rebound and resume with the AP arrow.

I see that APG has provided the citation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I see that APG has provided the citation.

8.6.1 SITUATION: A1 is about to attempt the first of a one-and-one free-throw
situation. The administering official steps in and erroneously informs players that
two shots will be taken. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful. The missed shot is
rebounded by: (a) B1, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another
throw; (b) A2, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw;
or (c) B2, with several players from both teams attempting to secure the rebound.
The officials recognize their error at this point. RULING: In (a) and (b), the official's
error clearly put one team at a disadvantage (players stood motionless and
didn't attempt to rebound). Play should be whistled dead immediately and
resumed using the alternating-possession procedure. In (c), both teams made an
attempt to rebound despite the official's error and had an equal opportunity to
gain possession of the rebound. Play should continue. (2-3)

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Neither of these statements is correct.
If both teams ignore the erroneous info provided by the official and go for the ball, it remains live.
This is not one of the five correctable errors.

There is a specific case book play instructing how to handle it and that is to whistle it dead ASAP if only one team or neither team attempts to rebound and resume with the AP arrow.

I see that APG has provided the citation.

How is neither correct? The official informed them it was 2 shots. On the miss after the first one you go to the AP.

If he misses the first and makes the second then the table calls the officials over to tell them it was 1-1 then why wouldn't this fall under being rewarded for unmerited free throws?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

How is neither correct? The official informed them it was 2 shots. On the miss after the first one you go to the AP.

If he misses the first and makes the second then the table calls the officials over to tell them it was 1-1 then why wouldn't this fall under being rewarded for unmerited free throws?

Neither statement which you wrote is correct because your first statement was that the ball is dead on the miss because of the official's incorrect info. That is untrue, the ball is not automatically dead. As part c of the Case Book play states, if both teams go for the rebound anyway, then play should continue as normal and the ball remains live. Also, when only one team goes for the rebound or neither an official must whistle for the ball to become dead. That's also in the case book ruling.

Your second statement about the correctable error is wrong because this situation would only become such if a 2nd FT attempt were to be administered following the 1st attempt being unsuccessful. That wasn't part of the scenario, so there's no CE. This is merely a mistake by the officials.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Neither statement which you wrote is correct because your first statement was that the ball is dead on the miss because of the official's incorrect info. That is untrue, the ball is not automatically dead. As part c of the Case Book play states, if both teams go for the rebound anyway, then play should continue as normal and the ball remains live. Also, when only one team goes for the rebound or neither an official must whistle for the ball to become dead. That's also in the case book ruling.

Your second statement about the correctable error is wrong because this situation would only become such if a 2nd FT attempt were to be administered following the 1st attempt being unsuccessful. That wasn't part of the scenario, so there's no CE. This is merely a mistake by the officials.

In the OP only one team went for the rebound. So you would count the bucket if the team scored before the whistle was blown? It's semantics, because I sure as hell won't count the score.

My second statement was in regards to IF a second FT was given.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

In the OP only one team went for the rebound. So you would count the bucket if the team scored before the whistle was blown? It's semantics, because I sure as hell won't count the score.

If there isn't a whistle, then what rule makes the ball dead?
You may not like it, but as an official you have to follow the rules.

Originally Posted by deecee

My second statement was in regards to IF a second FT was given.

Ok, but that's not even close to what you originally wrote.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If there isn't a whistle, then what rule makes the ball dead?

In a), and b), in the case play above, doesn't the ball become dead when all the other players remain motionless in anticipation of another throw, which may precede the sounding of the whistle by a second, or a fraction of a second?

Isn't this the case in most cases of a whistle being sounded, that is, the ball is already dead when the whistle sounds (foul, or violation)?

Doesn't Basketball Rule Fundamental #16 apply here (The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead))?