Fumble or not?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that a player is allowed to fumble, and recover their fumble, before or after a dribble without it being a violation. The beginning of a new dribble if the initial dribble ended in a fumble is a double dribble. But the fumble of a pass, recover, and then start of a dribble is legal.

I say all of that because I have seen multiple officials, several of which I think know what they are talking about, not call it as I have described. Most commonly I see a player attempt to end their dribble, but fumble the ball, recover it, and have it called a DD.

I had a partner reach over right in front of me and call one of these a DD when I was going to allow it. It was a legit fumble, not just an odd looking dribble. Makes me look bad, but I just want to confirm that I am understanding the rule. Thanks for any input.

Even some veterans call a violation when they see an ugly play.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Adam

Even some veterans call a violation when they see an ugly play.

I'm of the opinion that players, coaches, and fans are so used to a lot of officials calling "ugly plays" like this violations, that some of us get more grief when we no-call them. I have had partners this year reach right in front of me to call a travel when I know a player doesn't have control of the ball.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I'm of the opinion that players, coaches, and fans are so used to a lot of officials calling "ugly plays" like this violations, that some of us get more grief when we no-call them. I have had partners this year reach right in front of me to call a travel when I know a player doesn't have control of the ball.

Exactly. Had a coach begging for a DD on one of these not too long ago, told her it wasn't a DD, she just shook her head like she couldn't believe I was so incompetent.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I'm of the opinion that players, coaches, and fans are so used to a lot of officials calling "ugly plays" like this violations, that some of us get more grief when we no-call them. I have had partners this year reach right in front of me to call a travel when I know a player doesn't have control of the ball.

And don't forget the high dribble call.

[jeremy341a]

Last night in the JV game that preceded the varsity it happened on the second trip. I am the T right in front of the Coach. A player in the high post just above the free throw line is passed the ball and fumbles. I hear the Coach yell "Dead". Player dribbles the ball and coach says "that's a travel". He then corrects himself and says "I mean double dribble." I say that is just a fumble and not a dribble. He thought I was crazy.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Last night in the JV game that preceded the varsity it happened on the second trip. I am the T right in front of the Coach. A player in the high post just above the free throw line is passed the ball and fumbles. I hear the Coach yell "Dead". Player dribbles the ball and coach says "that's a travel". He then corrects himself and says "I mean double dribble." I say that is just a fumble and not a dribble. He thought I was crazy.

Muff dribble muff = legal
Dribble muff dribble = illegal

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Last night in the JV game that preceded the varsity it happened on the second trip. I am the T right in front of the Coach. A player in the high post just above the free throw line is passed the ball and fumbles. I hear the Coach yell "Dead". Player dribbles the ball and coach says "that's a travel". He then corrects himself and says "I mean double dribble." I say that is just a fumble and not a dribble. He thought I was crazy.

Isn't sad when Coaches YELL at us when we know what we are doing?

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Isn't sad when Coaches YELL at us when we know what we are doing?

yep, as soon as the Coach yelled dead i though oh boy here it comes.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Isn't sad when Coaches YELL at us when we know what we are doing?

I just think to myself:

1) I'm standing right here looking at the play, and I didn't blow my whistle. Do you really think I'm that incompetent?

2) You've seen officials not blow the whistle many times on this play, when are you going to get a clue that this is not a violation?

[letemplay]

I think it gets tricky for fans, coaches, and just admit, some officials too, when the pass to a player is muffed, and it appears he/she might dribble it in the process of recovery. Does the player actually dribble (by definition) here to regain control or are they actually just re-fumbling/muffing it? That can be a tough one sometimes I think.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I just think to myself:

1) I'm standing right here looking at the play, and I didn't blow my whistle. Do you really think I'm that incompetent?

2) You've seen officials not blow the whistle many times on this play, when are you going to get a clue that this is not a violation?

The problem is they've seen officials blow the whistle on this play too. I had this discussion pregame with my partner the other night. I think I will continue to do so. Especially any middle school assignments since there are 8 of these per quarter.

[RulesGeek]

Originally Posted by Adam

Even some veterans call a violation when they see an ugly play.

Isn't that an NBA rule?-- Pretty plays are not violations, even if they are.... Plays that "look wrong" are whistled, even if they are clean.

[JRutledge]

I do not think it is so much about what coaches see called. I think coaches have a fundamental misunderstanding of most rules and think something has been missed. Similar to the JH game I worked the other day and a coach wanted a "moving screen" with a player that had absolutely no contact but the made it clear a rule was violated in their mind.

Remember, coaches are used to telling everyone what to do and then they come in contact with a group of people that know something more than them and most do not have the ability to realize that is the case. Most cannot fathom that reality and that is why they argue. Of course there are officials that incorrectly make these calls, but that is because it is easier to go with what you "know" than read and figure out what the actual rule is in the book.

Peace