QB fumble?

[phansen]

NFHS

QB A1 is attempting to pass the ball, but ends up scrambling. B2 dives at A1's feet and causes A1 to stumble forward. A1 stumbles a minimum of 3 full steps albeit off balance before placing the football on the ground in order to regain his balance. A1's hand slides off the football which he placed on the ground. The ball stays exactly where A1 put it. A1 then fall to the ground about 3 yards ahead of the ball, reaches back and tries to recover the ball.
IS this a fumble? Or was it down when the ball touched the ground since the ground can't cause the fumble. How long is B2's contact a factor?
Rulebook citation appreciated.

[InsideTheStripe]

This is a fumble.

Nothing occurred that would cause the ball to become dead. I really wish the "the ground can't cause a fumble myth" would die.

[mbyron]

The runner lost possession. By rule that's a fumble (2-18). As ITS points out, nothing happened that would make the ball dead (the ways the ball becomes dead are listed in 4-2-2).

[MD Longhorn]

John Madden, all by himself, has made all of our lives more difficult. The ground CAN cause a fumble - the OP is the perfect example.

[mbyron]

We could amend it to: "the ground cannot cause a fumble once the runner is down," but that's not as catchy.

Also, it's kinda obvious and boring.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbyron

We could amend it to: "the ground cannot cause a fumble once the runner is down," but that's not as catchy.

Also, it's kinda obvious and boring.

I did not realize that people assumed that the line applied to this play.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by phansen

QB A1 is attempting to pass the ball, but ends up scrambling. B2 dives at A1's feet and causes A1 to stumble forward. A1 stumbles a minimum of 3 full steps albeit off balance before placing the football on the ground in order to regain his balance. A1's hand slides off the football which he placed on the ground. The ball stays exactly where A1 put it. A1 then fall to the ground about 3 yards ahead of the ball, reaches back and tries to recover the ball.
IS this a fumble? Or was it down when the ball touched the ground since the ground can't cause the fumble. How long is B2's contact a factor?
Rulebook citation appreciated.

CANADIAN RULING:

The ground most certainly can cause a fumble. And here's a play showing how.

[kdf5]

Spoons don't make Rosie O'Donnell fat, Rosie makes Rosie fat and the ground doesn't cause a fumble, the runner causes a fumble.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Spoons don't make Rosie O'Donnell fat, Rosie makes Rosie fat and the ground doesn't cause a fumble, the runner causes a fumble.

Like

+1


Both apply.

[NDRef]

Originally Posted by phansen

NFHS

QB A1 is attempting to pass the ball, but ends up scrambling. B2 dives at A1's feet and causes A1 to stumble forward. A1 stumbles a minimum of 3 full steps albeit off balance before placing the football on the ground in order to regain his balance. A1's hand slides off the football which he placed on the ground. The ball stays exactly where A1 put it. A1 then fall to the ground about 3 yards ahead of the ball, reaches back and tries to recover the ball.
IS this a fumble? Or was it down when the ball touched the ground since the ground can't cause the fumble. How long is B2's contact a factor?
Rulebook citation appreciated.

phansen---I am disappointed in your "ground can't cause a fumble" statement. You have been officiating and been around the game way too long to not only use this terminology, but use it as a guide in your officiating (and I assume as well your other part-time job in this area). On the other hand, you are recognizing we are never too old to continue to learn.

PS--Congrats on your award\honor last month. Very much deserved!!!

[phansen]

Originally Posted by NDRef

phansen---I am disappointed in your "ground can't cause a fumble" statement. You have been officiating and been around the game way too long to not only use this terminology, but use it as a guide in your officiating (and I assume as well your other part-time job in this area). On the other hand, you are recognizing we are never too old to continue to learn.

PS--Congrats on your award\honor last month. Very much deserved!!!

So sorry to disappoint. Guess I'm part of the group that is still learning. I've always falsely assumed "the ground can't cause a fumble" to be true until I saw this play and started evaluating it from an officials standpoint using the rules. Thanks mbyron for the rulebook citation.

[APG]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

John Madden, all by himself, has made all of our lives more difficult.

Which is crazy cause the ground can most definitely cause a fumble more so in the NFL, where a player (for the most part) is down by contact.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbyron

We could amend it to: "the ground cannot cause a fumble once the runner is down," but that's not as catchy.

Also, it's kinda obvious and boring.

Honestly, I have never can remember getting any crap from a coach or player about this. Maybe I need to get out more.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Leaving the ball on the ground is a fumble even if it's done deliberately. The fact that it's not a pass could make a difference in NCAA & NFL rules regarding their treatment of certain fumbles.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by phansen

So sorry to disappoint. Guess I'm part of the group that is still learning. I've always falsely assumed "the ground can't cause a fumble" to be true until I saw this play and started evaluating it from an officials standpoint using the rules. Thanks mbyron for the rulebook citation.

Glad to see you still learning! Good luck with the game on Saturday! I hope to see the Bison in Terre Haute next weekend!