fumble

[yankeesfan]

it is 1st and 10 at the 30 yard line going in. running back A10 gets his facemask pulled at the line of scrimmage, then fumbles which is recovered by A at the 25 yard line. the penalty was a personal foul, 15 yards. should the penalty be enforced from the spot of foul or the 25 yard line?

[Smiley]

Neither. All defensive fouls are enforced from the basic spot. In this case we have a running play. The basic spot is the end of the related run. So enforcement is from the point at which the fumble occurred.

[jjb]

I agree with Smiley. Also, the line judge and linemen need to be accurate with the bean bag. The bean bag should be dropped on the line where the ball comes loose. That is where the run ends. I have seen bean bags tossed out without regard to where they land. Carefully dropped bean bags are needed to help correct enforcement.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

it is 1st and 10 at the 30 yard line going in. running back A10 gets his facemask pulled at the line of scrimmage, then fumbles which is recovered by A at the 25 yard line. the penalty was a personal foul, 15 yards. should the penalty be enforced from the spot of foul or the 25 yard line?

Facemask is an Unnecessary Roughness foul and carries a penalty, when on B, of 15 yards + automatic first down. UR POAs are always to the best of the non-offending team.

Result: 15y + AFD from PBD (point ball dead) = A 1D/10 @ B-12.5.

[jontheref]

Just a quick thought about beanbags....the beanbag needs to mark the yard line where the fumble occurred....not the spot that it happened. I saw in my game this week a linesman throw a beanbag about 20 yards (at my feet) when all he had to do was drop it at his feet. Then again, on some crews I work I dont see alot of beanbag usage.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by jontheref

Just a quick thought about beanbags....the beanbag needs to mark the yard line where the fumble occurred....not the spot that it happened. I saw in my game this week a linesman throw a beanbag about 20 yards (at my feet) when all he had to do was drop it at his feet. Then again, on some crews I work I dont see alot of beanbag usage.

Good point Jon, also a bean bag is not needed for a fumble behind the NZ, as for fumbles behind the NZ, the BS is the PS. We often will put one down anyway just so all know we had a loose ball on the play.

[Stripe]

The facemask foul is 15 yards but not an automatic first down in Federation. The only fouls that carry an automatic first down are roughing the passer, kicker, holder, snapper, and defensive pass interference.

[yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by Smiley

Neither. All defensive fouls are enforced from the basic spot. In this case we have a running play. The basic spot is the end of the related run. So enforcement is from the point at which the fumble occurred.

the facemask and fumble were at the same spot, the 30 yard line.

[jjrye22]

Originally Posted by MJT

Good point Jon, also a bean bag is not needed for a fumble behind the NZ, as for fumbles behind the NZ, the BS is the PS. We often will put one down anyway just so all know we had a loose ball on the play.

Except on 4th down right...

We also tend to drop a bag on a fumble behind the NZ even though they aren't usually necessary. One of my worst looking mistakes last year. As U I grab my bag to throw about 5 yards (1-2 yards behind the NZ) and it slips out of my hand and rips at least 20 yards upfield (the WH looked quite startled!). Had to hear about that one for weeks!

James

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by jjrye22

Except on 4th down right...
..
James

Only in a collegiate game (and on all running Try downs as well). Rolling fists signal all this is a unique down situation.