Pre Tip Off question

[dbogcpa]

Guys, first post from a rookie ref.

Last night, Middle School Varsity game, I'm the R. I go to table at 10:00 minute mark to check book. Home book is blank and no bookeeper to be found. Visitors book is on table, filled out but no scorekeeper. I ask home coach about bookeeper and filling out rosters and she says she doesn't know where bookeeeper is and they will get to it when she gets there. I wait a couple of minutes, assistant coach finally sets down to begin filling out book at 6:00 mark. She writes a few names at her leisure and begins chatting with someone in the crowd. At the 3:00 mark, I tell her she needs to complete the book now as the game is about to start. She give me a dirty look, quickly fills out the remaining spots and shoves the book toward me while slamming down the pencil. Head coach is standing there, I tell them both that there is no need to throw things, that I have been very patient and have not accessed the technical foul that they earned for not having their book ready at the 10:00 mark. Head coach says "whatever, go ahead and give us a technical" and walks off. I resist the urge to whack her and proceed to sign the book and get game started.

Would you guys have handled this situation any differently?

[deecee]

In middle school games these protocols are very lax. however when a coach asks for a T I always oblige. You should have said "you got it". No need to blow the whistle and make a scene. Let the coach know that she he/she has lost her coaches box privileges since this would be a direct T for being a PITA.

Let the book know what to record, inform the other coach that the game will start with 2 FT's and their ball and that the arrow will be set to the team that received the T. I would also tell the scorekeeper that if his/her attitude didn't change you would either find someone else to do the job or just transfer the responsibility to the visiting book.

My patience at lower level games for attitude is almost at 0. Which is why I don't do them anymore.

[Scuba_ref]

It's Middle School. I'm not sure the last time I checked a MS book. I'm happy to see someone sitting there ready to go. My main concern is do they know how to operate the game clock and do they know when to reset the shot clock - seeing as the table crew themselves are MSers.

[bob jenkins]

You need to figure out how strictly this is handled in your area.

Also, remember that the requirement is only to give the information to the scorer by 10 minutes -- it doesn't need to be in the book. So, if the roster and starters were the same as in the previous game, you *could* make a case that the information was provided by just putting the book on the table.

[dbogcpa]

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't to concerned that it wasn't ready at 10:00, I just wanted to get the game going. I just didn't like them getting pissy with me because I thought the book should be ready 3:00 before tipoff and the HC asking for the T

[ODog]

Originally Posted by dbogcpa

I wasn't to concerned that it wasn't ready at 10:00, I just wanted to get the game going.

I mean this in all seriousness: At that level, if you want to get the game going, just put the numbers in the book yourself.

It's good practice for the AAU assembly line of games anyway

[MD Longhorn]

I would suggest first that you lower your table and pre-game protocol expectations for middle school games. That said - I agree with the first post - ALWAYS accept the invitation by a coach to give them a T. There was no need for that attitude toward you at the get-go.

[Refk]

My table expectations for MS games is low...........so if everything is ready to go at 3 minutes it's a bonus. I agree, if the coach wants the T then I'm more than happy to oblige.

[Jim Henry]

Originally Posted by Scuba_ref

It's Middle School. I'm not sure the last time I checked a MS book. I'm happy to see someone sitting there ready to go. My main concern is do they know how to operate the game clock and do they know when to reset the shot clock - seeing as the table crew themselves are MSers.

I have been doing MS games for 13 years. Yeah call me crazy. Also do Jr High and some JV. I agree with Scuba ref. I’m just glad there are two bookkeepers and a competent person at the clock at the MS games. Never check the book. I do though always enforced the rules to the surprise of some in the gym. I feel we have to teach the rules to the kids, coaches and parents. Many times when a violation happens I calmly tell the player what they did wrong. Sometimes I direct my comments to the coach too. They don’t have a problem with this. I did though have a bookkeeper say to me, “I know of no ref that would have made that call." What happened is the girl bringing down the ball stopped dribbling in the backcourt, tied her shoe and then proceeded to dribble again. Tweet. Double dribble. I think she learned her lesson.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

I work volleyball for our local board and handle our school's basketball books.In volleyball we are expected to show up at least 30 minutes prior to first serve.I show up an hour early for my matches.We run the risk of losing assignments if we show up later than 30 minutes multiple times.In basketball we play all 4 levels (JV girls,JV boys,Var girls,Var boys) on the same day 3,430,600,and 730.I am at school for home games at 2pm.On the rare instance I work Jr High games I feel like it is my job to show the next generation how it is done at the varsity level.I hold the students to the same expectations that I keep for myself when handling games at any level.One of my favorite sayings is "The most important game on the court is the game in front of you."If its MS or JV that means giving it the same effort as varsity.