Help with odd Scenario

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CountTheBasket

If he's smart enough to do that, he earned the 5 second rest for his defense. Again this is strictly rec ball, I don't go around like some renegade official changing rules as I please in HS. I just think sometimes you need to make some common sense decisions and know where you are.

This requires no bit of cunningness at all.

I'm not saying he intentionally called a timeout when he wasn't allowed to, hoping you'd call it and then ignore the rule, so he'd get his timeout back.

I'm saying he called timeout to reset his defense (or any number of other reasons). That's all. You let him do so ... but then didn't charge the timeout. So he got what he wanted, and as an added bonus, he gets to keep his TO.

It's not a horrible thing (especially in rec) that you mistakenly stopped play - a minor mistake in the scheme of things. But don't make it doubly so by not charging the timeout.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

You shouldn't award that type of thing. Sure, as somebody that appreciates cunningness, you may want to do this. But the bottom line is he requested a time out, so he should be charged a time out.

Generally...I agree with you. In my case, after watching the guy interact with his team, seeing how unprepared they looked and how he conducted himself...he was nowhere close to be cunning enough to try to get a quick reset. He had a somewhat decent grasp of SOME of the rules but appeared to have absolutely no clue how to coach a team or teach basketball skills. If he is a good teacher of basketball skills his players were really bad when he got them.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

In the scenario from the OP, what about doing this...?

Since the thrower should have been allowed to complete his first try, the throw is started over and the first three throw is completed. Then award the TO, since this would be the first time a TO should be granted. After the TO you award the 2nd free throw and move on with the rest of the game.

If you're going strictly by the book, this isn't the correct way to handle this. You would grant the TO...and resume with two FT's after the TO (which is what bob was alluding into with the casebook play 5.8.3 Situation E telling us to grant the TO even though he asked for it when he shouldn't have been granted it by rule).

[Huntin' Ref]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

In the scenario from the OP, what about doing this...?

Since the thrower should have been allowed to complete his first try, the throw is started over and the first three throw is completed. Then award the TO, since this would be the first time a TO should be granted. After the TO you award the 2nd free throw and move on with the rest of the game.

This is exactly what the officials did.

[Huntin' Ref]

Originally Posted by APG

If you're going strictly by the book, this isn't the correct way to handle this. You would grant the TO...and resume with two FT's after the TO (which is what bob was alluding into with the casebook play 5.8.3 Situation E telling us to grant the TO even though he asked for it when he shouldn't have been granted it by rule).

Is blowing your whistle the same as granting the timeout? Timeouts must be "granted" could you simply go inadvertant whistle and start the free throw again? Obviously, the reason you blew the whistle was to grant the TO but this is a good learning opportunity for all of us. In 5.8.3 it specifically says if a time out is "requested and erroneously granted" so is blowing the whistle basically also granting the timeout?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref

Is blowing your whistle the same as granting the timeout? Timeouts must be "granted" could you simply go inadvertant whistle and start the free throw again? Obviously, the reason you blew the whistle was to grant the TO but this is a good learning opportunity for all of us. In 5.8.3 it specifically says if a time out is "requested and erroneously granted" so is blowing the whistle basically also granting the timeout?

By rule, no. By case play ... still no. You can't IW and FT. Once you blew it (IW), you now have to take the TO.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref

... could you simply go inadvertent whistle?

This (above) really doesn't matter because once the inadvertent whistle is sounded, then the coach can legally request, and legally be granted, a timeout. It's a dead ball. There is no player, or team control. It's probably not a successive timeout when playing time expired for the fourth period, or any extra period. Probably no inured, or disqualified, player to attend to. The ball has probably already become live to start the game. How can you legally stop the coach from requesting, and being granted a timeout, even if it's a time out in excess of the allotted number? When the coach says, "Why not", what will you tell him? "Because I'm your mother."? Wait? I'm being told ... Whose mother? Mine? Ignore the last part.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by APG

If you're going strictly by the book, this isn't the correct way to handle this. You would grant the TO...and resume with two FT's after the TO (which is what bob was alluding into with the casebook play 5.8.3 Situation E telling us to grant the TO even though he asked for it when he shouldn't have been granted it by rule).

As posted here, the proper HS ruling is to grant and charge the time-out even though it was requested at an improper time. Both FTs will be attempted following the TO.
As for the coaching box enforcement, that depends upon how strict your local area is about it, but perhaps the coach was all the way out there because he was trying to get the official's attention for a TO and wasn't being recognized.

Lastly, I'm concerned why so many fans in your local area have the OP's number. I can see fellow officials having it, but not random fans. Did his kid play with theirs a year or so ago? Is this a super small town in the Midwest where everyone knows everyone? Is he a local school teacher? I would contend that someone isn't maintaining the proper separation from the local spectators for a higher level official.

[Adam]

The rule is clear, once you blow the whistle in this case, you need to grant the TO immediately. It doesn't matter what the situation is: loose ball, A1 dribbling, pass in flight, shot in flight, or a free throw imminent.

I agree that I would wonder why so many fans would have the OP's cell phone number, but I wouldn't jump straight to assuming the OP is doing something wrong. There are a number of explanations (perhaps it was just two or three fans, for example).