The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 09:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 70
Help with odd Scenario

Last night 2 local teams played a very competitive game that went down to a last second, game winning shot. I was working a collegiate game but was inundated with text messages from fans at the game asking about an end of game scenerio:

With 5 seconds on the clock, Team A is at the line for the first of 2 free throws. The ball is in the throwers hands. The trail official is getting his keister handed to him by the coach of the team (Team B) that just committed the foul and subsequently yells for a time out. The trail, was flustered, and blew his whistle (again, the free thrower has the ball) for the time-out. The 3 officials got together and decided they would readminister the free throw and grant the time out when the first free throw was completed.

Additional information, this game allows the 14' coaching box. Coach B is at the half-court line "discussing his displeasure" with the call and Coach A is telling the officials that should be a T for being out of the box.

I will likely see the game footage in the next couple of nights, so my scenerio is putting the text message story together.

Thoughts and insight appreciated on this scenerio.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 10:03am
Moderator M-800
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
This doesn't seem the kind of thing that dozens of fans would text officials they know about. Granted that this was mildly wrong, how did it actually affect the game?
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 10:04am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,241
Grant the TO *before* the first FT.

On the coaching box issue, it's area dependent.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 10:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 102
I would not just turn around and wack that coach for being out of the box without knowing anything else about what led up to it. I would actually think no matter what, based on the time and situation he would get a stern "Coach, you need to get back in your box and then I will talk to you" and as long as he did oblige and return immediatley there's no need for a T. I'm also a little unclear about what the big deal was for end of game. The ref blew his whistle when he shouldn't have, but it sounds like there was really no influence on the shot at all.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 10:32am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountTheBasket View Post
I would not just turn around and wack that coach for being out of the box without knowing anything else about what led up to it. I would actually think no matter what, based on the time and situation he would get a stern "Coach, you need to get back in your box and then I will talk to you" and as long as he did oblige and return immediatley there's no need for a T. I'm also a little unclear about what the big deal was for end of game. The ref blew his whistle when he shouldn't have, but it sounds like there was really no influence on the shot at all.
Agreed. There was no impact other than the stoppage in play could have "iced" the shooter. The player made both FT's and tied the game so there was no impact. It was just interesting. Like I said, I want to view the video as there must be more too it. I had 10 different people text me about it. Several were officials and several were fans that have common sense so they were just inquiring about the situation.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 11:05am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: WA
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref View Post
Agreed. There was no impact other than the stoppage in play could have "iced" the shooter. The player made both FT's and tied the game so there was no impact. It was just interesting. Like I said, I want to view the video as there must be more too it. I had 10 different people text me about it. Several were officials and several were fans that have common sense so they were just inquiring about the situation.
Doesn't blowing the whistle and all three officials huddling also "ice" the shooter? At this point the game is interrupted by an inadvertent whistle and a timeout may be granted.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 11:45am
Often wrong never n doubt
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_ref View Post
Doesn't blowing the whistle and all three officials huddling also "ice" the shooter? At this point the game is interrupted by an inadvertent whistle and a timeout may be granted.

Does the Coach have to re-request it now that the ball is dead in order for it to be granted or does his original request carry over from the inadvertent whistle and now he must be charged with the time out?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 11:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy341a View Post
Does the Coach have to re-request it now that the ball is dead in order for it to be granted or does his original request carry over from the inadvertent whistle and now he must be charged with the time out?
No rule book in front of me, but based on common sense I would say charge the timeout. If he caused the inadvertant whistle with his request and had no timeout's left, the team is certianly going to get hit with the T.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 12:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy341a View Post
Does the Coach have to re-request it now that the ball is dead in order for it to be granted or does his original request carry over from the inadvertent whistle and now he must be charged with the time out?
There is (or was) some case to the affect that "A1 is dribbling when coach B requests a TO. The official blows the whistle. Ruling: Grant the TO."

It's the same thing here. The TO is granted.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 12:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 270
I seem to remember something that says the TO is granted even when the official inadvertantly blows the whistle.

I had it happen to me last Saturday. It was a slow paced game (read B-O-R-I-N-G!!!!) and I was thinking about focusing on my mechanics when the visiting coach requested a TO as I went by. I blew the whistle and immediately cussed myself under my breath because his team was on defense. Coach said "My bad, I made you look bad and know better. Forget the request and lets go with an inadvertant." So I put the ball back in play and kicked myself again for good measure.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 12:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 102
I've done it a couple of times in rec ball, especially after doing 4 or 5 games in a row it can be tough to remember who is cocahing which team and what direction we're going at the current moment. I never give them the TO even though I know I'm supposed to. I just figure they need to learn and giving them the TO anyway isn't the way to teach. Plus it avoids the parent yells that are sure to come next, "they don't have the ball he can't call timeout!!"
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 01:11pm
Moderator M-800
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountTheBasket View Post
I've done it a couple of times in rec ball, especially after doing 4 or 5 games in a row it can be tough to remember who is cocahing which team and what direction we're going at the current moment. I never give them the TO even though I know I'm supposed to. I just figure they need to learn and giving them the TO anyway isn't the way to teach. Plus it avoids the parent yells that are sure to come next, "they don't have the ball he can't call timeout!!"
By not giving the TO in this situation, you may be giving the coach exactly what he really wants - a reset of his defense - without charging him for the timeout.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 01:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
By not giving the TO in this situation, you may be giving the coach exactly what he really wants - a reset of his defense - without charging him for the timeout.
If he's smart enough to do that, he earned the 5 second rest for his defense. Again this is strictly rec ball, I don't go around like some renegade official changing rules as I please in HS. I just think sometimes you need to make some common sense decisions and know where you are.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 01:32pm
Stubborn Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,466
In the scenario from the OP, what about doing this...?

Since the thrower should have been allowed to complete his first try, the throw is started over and the first three throw is completed. Then award the TO, since this would be the first time a TO should be granted. After the TO you award the 2nd free throw and move on with the rest of the game.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 21, 2014, 01:33pm
Stubborn Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,466
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountTheBasket View Post
If he's smart enough to do that, he earned the 5 second rest for his defense. Again this is strictly rec ball, I don't go around like some renegade official changing rules as I please in HS. I just think sometimes you need to make some common sense decisions and know where you are.
You shouldn't award that type of thing. Sure, as somebody that appreciates cunningness, you may want to do this. But the bottom line is he requested a time out, so he should be charged a time out.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How Do You Like This Scenario? Zebra06 Basketball 14 Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:32pm
Scenario Dholloway1962 Softball 9 Tue May 06, 2008 08:54am
another travel scenario JS 20 Basketball 4 Tue Feb 19, 2008 04:27pm
Here's a scenario Snake~eyes Lacrosse 4 Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:29pm
A NEW BACKCOURT SCENARIO SportsPlayByPlay Basketball 2 Tue Nov 16, 1999 08:50pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:25pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1