Help with odd Scenario

[Huntin' Ref]

Last night 2 local teams played a very competitive game that went down to a last second, game winning shot. I was working a collegiate game but was inundated with text messages from fans at the game asking about an end of game scenerio:

With 5 seconds on the clock, Team A is at the line for the first of 2 free throws. The ball is in the throwers hands. The trail official is getting his keister handed to him by the coach of the team (Team B) that just committed the foul and subsequently yells for a time out. The trail, was flustered, and blew his whistle (again, the free thrower has the ball) for the time-out. The 3 officials got together and decided they would readminister the free throw and grant the time out when the first free throw was completed.

Additional information, this game allows the 14' coaching box. Coach B is at the half-court line "discussing his displeasure" with the call and Coach A is telling the officials that should be a T for being out of the box.

I will likely see the game footage in the next couple of nights, so my scenerio is putting the text message story together.

Thoughts and insight appreciated on this scenerio.

[MD Longhorn]

This doesn't seem the kind of thing that dozens of fans would text officials they know about. Granted that this was mildly wrong, how did it actually affect the game?

[bob jenkins]

Grant the TO *before* the first FT.

On the coaching box issue, it's area dependent.

[CountTheBasket]

I would not just turn around and wack that coach for being out of the box without knowing anything else about what led up to it. I would actually think no matter what, based on the time and situation he would get a stern "Coach, you need to get back in your box and then I will talk to you" and as long as he did oblige and return immediatley there's no need for a T. I'm also a little unclear about what the big deal was for end of game. The ref blew his whistle when he shouldn't have, but it sounds like there was really no influence on the shot at all.

[Huntin' Ref]

Originally Posted by CountTheBasket

I would not just turn around and wack that coach for being out of the box without knowing anything else about what led up to it. I would actually think no matter what, based on the time and situation he would get a stern "Coach, you need to get back in your box and then I will talk to you" and as long as he did oblige and return immediatley there's no need for a T. I'm also a little unclear about what the big deal was for end of game. The ref blew his whistle when he shouldn't have, but it sounds like there was really no influence on the shot at all.

Agreed. There was no impact other than the stoppage in play could have "iced" the shooter. The player made both FT's and tied the game so there was no impact. It was just interesting. Like I said, I want to view the video as there must be more too it. I had 10 different people text me about it. Several were officials and several were fans that have common sense so they were just inquiring about the situation.

[Scuba_ref]

Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref

Agreed. There was no impact other than the stoppage in play could have "iced" the shooter. The player made both FT's and tied the game so there was no impact. It was just interesting. Like I said, I want to view the video as there must be more too it. I had 10 different people text me about it. Several were officials and several were fans that have common sense so they were just inquiring about the situation.

Doesn't blowing the whistle and all three officials huddling also "ice" the shooter? At this point the game is interrupted by an inadvertent whistle and a timeout may be granted.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by Scuba_ref

Doesn't blowing the whistle and all three officials huddling also "ice" the shooter? At this point the game is interrupted by an inadvertent whistle and a timeout may be granted.

Does the Coach have to re-request it now that the ball is dead in order for it to be granted or does his original request carry over from the inadvertent whistle and now he must be charged with the time out?

[CountTheBasket]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Does the Coach have to re-request it now that the ball is dead in order for it to be granted or does his original request carry over from the inadvertent whistle and now he must be charged with the time out?

No rule book in front of me, but based on common sense I would say charge the timeout. If he caused the inadvertant whistle with his request and had no timeout's left, the team is certianly going to get hit with the T.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Does the Coach have to re-request it now that the ball is dead in order for it to be granted or does his original request carry over from the inadvertent whistle and now he must be charged with the time out?

There is (or was) some case to the affect that "A1 is dribbling when coach B requests a TO. The official blows the whistle. Ruling: Grant the TO."

It's the same thing here. The TO is granted.

[BatteryPowered]

I seem to remember something that says the TO is granted even when the official inadvertantly blows the whistle.

I had it happen to me last Saturday. It was a slow paced game (read B-O-R-I-N-G!!!!) and I was thinking about focusing on my mechanics when the visiting coach requested a TO as I went by. I blew the whistle and immediately cussed myself under my breath because his team was on defense. Coach said "My bad, I made you look bad and know better. Forget the request and lets go with an inadvertant." So I put the ball back in play and kicked myself again for good measure.

[CountTheBasket]

I've done it a couple of times in rec ball, especially after doing 4 or 5 games in a row it can be tough to remember who is cocahing which team and what direction we're going at the current moment. I never give them the TO even though I know I'm supposed to. I just figure they need to learn and giving them the TO anyway isn't the way to teach. Plus it avoids the parent yells that are sure to come next, "they don't have the ball he can't call timeout!!"

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CountTheBasket

I've done it a couple of times in rec ball, especially after doing 4 or 5 games in a row it can be tough to remember who is cocahing which team and what direction we're going at the current moment. I never give them the TO even though I know I'm supposed to. I just figure they need to learn and giving them the TO anyway isn't the way to teach. Plus it avoids the parent yells that are sure to come next, "they don't have the ball he can't call timeout!!"

By not giving the TO in this situation, you may be giving the coach exactly what he really wants - a reset of his defense - without charging him for the timeout.

[CountTheBasket]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

By not giving the TO in this situation, you may be giving the coach exactly what he really wants - a reset of his defense - without charging him for the timeout.

If he's smart enough to do that, he earned the 5 second rest for his defense. Again this is strictly rec ball, I don't go around like some renegade official changing rules as I please in HS. I just think sometimes you need to make some common sense decisions and know where you are.

[BryanV21]

In the scenario from the OP, what about doing this...?

Since the thrower should have been allowed to complete his first try, the throw is started over and the first three throw is completed. Then award the TO, since this would be the first time a TO should be granted. After the TO you award the 2nd free throw and move on with the rest of the game.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by CountTheBasket

If he's smart enough to do that, he earned the 5 second rest for his defense. Again this is strictly rec ball, I don't go around like some renegade official changing rules as I please in HS. I just think sometimes you need to make some common sense decisions and know where you are.

You shouldn't award that type of thing. Sure, as somebody that appreciates cunningness, you may want to do this. But the bottom line is he requested a time out, so he should be charged a time out.