Endgame controversy in No VA

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Yep.

Sort of like having a "do over" in an NCAA men's game a few seasons back.

Oh wait...those guys are all 3 still working. One has worked the NCAA tournament the last two seasons after making that screw-up.

Anyone who would say that officials should be fired for making a mistake is either incredibly arrogant or incredibly dumb. Or maybe both?

When the person making your hamburger at McDonalds makes a mistake they can be fired easily because there are another 20 million illegal aliens here ready to take his place. When the CEO at McDonalds makes a mistake, he isn't so easily fired because the number of people qualified to do is job is much smaller. You can walk into any number of middle school and rec league gyms to find guys who can officiate and not make the mistake these three guys did.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by johnny d

When the person making your hamburger at McDonalds makes a mistake they can be fired easily because there are another 20 million illegal aliens here ready to take his place. When the CEO at McDonalds makes a mistake, he isn't so easily fired because the number of people qualified to do is job is much smaller. You can walk into any number of middle school and rec league gyms to find guys who can officiate and not make the mistake these three guys did.

I believe your estimate of the number of quality officials is somewhat skewed. And if you're saying that anyone who has made a mistake on the court is unfit to work, then what you're looking for are perfect officials - and those are less common than McDonald CEO's ... as in - I don't believe any of us has ever met one.

Lighten up a bit, Francis.

[JRutledge]

They could be fired from that league or working for that association. Not sure why that is such a shocking thing to suggest. It was a very bad error and why it happen still baffles me. Someone should have saved this crew. Many have been fired for much less for sure.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnny d

When the person making your hamburger at McDonalds makes a mistake they can be fired easily because there are another 20 million illegal aliens here ready to take his place. When the CEO at McDonalds makes a mistake, he isn't so easily fired because the number of people qualified to do is job is much smaller. You can walk into any number of middle school and rec league gyms to find guys who can officiate and not make the mistake these three guys did.

I used to run a McDonald's when I was in college. I could teach someone to make a hamburger in a few minutes. It takes years for someone to become a good, varsity-quality official. I have no clue how good these officials are, but someone felt they were capable of working this game.

You're willing to throw away 3 careers built up over years because of a (regrettable) mistake?

I like to think I won't make a monumental gaffe in my game tonight. But I'm human and it could happen. If it does, it means I should throw away 27 years of work and find something else to do?

There's an old phrase..."There but for the grace of God go I..."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They could be fired from that league or working for that association. Not sure why that is such a shocking thing to suggest. It was a very bad error and why it happen still baffles me. Someone should have saved this crew. Many have been fired for much less for sure.

Peace

It's not shocking. I've been fired from a HS league for properly penalizing unsportsmanlike conduct -- I didn't even make a mistake and I got fired. Our hiring is a bit different (you and I have similar situations, I think). I lose a league, I find another one to work. Others have associations that do all the assigning -- if they lose that avenue to get games, their careers come to a halt. Or they move.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's not shocking. I've been fired from a HS league for properly penalizing unsportsmanlike conduct -- I didn't even make a mistake and I got fired. Our hiring is a bit different (you and I have similar situations, I think). I lose a league, I find another one to work. Others have associations that do all the assigning -- if they lose that avenue to get games, their careers come to a halt. Or they move.

I did not advocate that take place. Just stating that is not far-fetched. And even being suspended would not be out of the question.

I have also been fired for much less than this and I would not be surprised if that happened again in my career. And just like you, I did nothing wrong either as it pertains to a rule or mechanic or even judgment.

Peace

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I believe your estimate of the number of quality officials is somewhat skewed. And if you're saying that anyone who has made a mistake on the court is unfit to work, then what you're looking for are perfect officials - and those are less common than McDonald CEO's ... as in - I don't believe any of us has ever met one.

Lighten up a bit, Francis.

I am not looking for the perfect official at all. Mistakes happen. This mistake is an egregious mistake and the consequences for those officials should be more severe than normal, up to and including being removed from the staff.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Rich

I used to run a McDonald's when I was in college. I could teach someone to make a hamburger in a few minutes. It takes years for someone to become a good, varsity-quality official. I have no clue how good these officials are, but someone felt they were capable of working this game.

You're willing to throw away 3 careers built up over years because of a (regrettable) mistake?

I like to think I won't make a monumental gaffe in my game tonight. But I'm human and it could happen. If it does, it means I should throw away 27 years of work and find something else to do?

There's an old phrase..."There but for the grace of God go I..."

Is there a chance you would be fired if you made a monumental gaffe at your regular job? I would imagine so. I understand the outcome of a HS basketball game is probably insignificant when compared to what would happen if many of us made a huge mistake at our regular job, but there still needs to be an expectation that things are going to be handled correctly. This was a big mistake made by 3 officials on a very simple rule and play. The loss of a game or two and having a discussion with the members of an association is not a severe enough punishment for what happened.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Is there a chance you would be fired if you made a monumental gaffe at your regular job? I would imagine so. I understand the outcome of a HS basketball game is probably insignificant when compared to what would happen if many of us made a huge mistake at our regular job, but there still needs to be an expectation that things are going to be handled correctly. This was a big mistake made by 3 officials on a very simple rule and play. The loss of a game or two and having a discussion with the members of an association is not a severe enough punishment for what happened.

Why not?

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why not?

Because the level of incompetence, lack of rules knowledge, and unpreparedness demonstrated by those 3 officials in that situation is above and beyond simply kicking a rule and therefore, the consequences of their failure should be much more severe than the standard punishment.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Because the level of incompetence, lack of rules knowledge, and unpreparedness demonstrated by those 3 officials in that situation is above and beyond simply kicking a rule and therefore, the consequences of their failure should be much more severe than the standard punishment.

You know, I know, and everyone knows that they F-ed up. I guess I have a really hard time kicking high school basketball officials when they're down.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by johnny d

This mistake is an egregious mistake

Just curious. If this mistake had been made at the end of the 1st quarter, would it still be egregious?

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Because the level of incompetence, lack of rules knowledge, and unpreparedness demonstrated by those 3 officials in that situation is above and beyond simply kicking a rule and therefore, the consequences of their failure should be much more severe than the standard punishment.

Would you say the same thing if this same scenario happened at the end of the first, second, or third quarter? If not, why not?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Because the level of incompetence, lack of rules knowledge, and unpreparedness demonstrated by those 3 officials in that situation is above and beyond simply kicking a rule and therefore, the consequences of their failure should be much more severe than the standard punishment.

I think this is just way overboard. It was a bad miss, especially since they had just discussed it with the coaches. I still think it's even money that it wasn't the worse mistake made on the court that night. That honor probably goes to one of the players like it usually does.

I just hope you don't have to live up to this standard when you have the misfortune to make a mistake.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I just hope you don't have to live up to this standard when you have the misfortune to make a mistake.

I have made mistakes in officiating and at my regular job, and I have been penalized accordingly. If I was foolish enough to make this particular mistake, I would expect to be fired from that league/staff. Would that be the end of my career, probably not since we have multiple leagues to work in here. It would however impact the amount and level of games I might get in those other leagues as well.