Endgame controversy in No VA

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Rich

I used to run a McDonald's when I was in college. I could teach someone to make a hamburger in a few minutes. It takes years for someone to become a good, varsity-quality official. I have no clue how good these officials are, but someone felt they were capable of working this game.

You're willing to throw away 3 careers built up over years because of a (regrettable) mistake?

I like to think I won't make a monumental gaffe in my game tonight. But I'm human and it could happen. If it does, it means I should throw away 27 years of work and find something else to do?

There's an old phrase..."There but for the grace of God go I..."

Is there a chance you would be fired if you made a monumental gaffe at your regular job? I would imagine so. I understand the outcome of a HS basketball game is probably insignificant when compared to what would happen if many of us made a huge mistake at our regular job, but there still needs to be an expectation that things are going to be handled correctly. This was a big mistake made by 3 officials on a very simple rule and play. The loss of a game or two and having a discussion with the members of an association is not a severe enough punishment for what happened.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Is there a chance you would be fired if you made a monumental gaffe at your regular job? I would imagine so. I understand the outcome of a HS basketball game is probably insignificant when compared to what would happen if many of us made a huge mistake at our regular job, but there still needs to be an expectation that things are going to be handled correctly. This was a big mistake made by 3 officials on a very simple rule and play. The loss of a game or two and having a discussion with the members of an association is not a severe enough punishment for what happened.

Why not?

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why not?

Because the level of incompetence, lack of rules knowledge, and unpreparedness demonstrated by those 3 officials in that situation is above and beyond simply kicking a rule and therefore, the consequences of their failure should be much more severe than the standard punishment.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Because the level of incompetence, lack of rules knowledge, and unpreparedness demonstrated by those 3 officials in that situation is above and beyond simply kicking a rule and therefore, the consequences of their failure should be much more severe than the standard punishment.

You know, I know, and everyone knows that they F-ed up. I guess I have a really hard time kicking high school basketball officials when they're down.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Because the level of incompetence, lack of rules knowledge, and unpreparedness demonstrated by those 3 officials in that situation is above and beyond simply kicking a rule and therefore, the consequences of their failure should be much more severe than the standard punishment.

Would you say the same thing if this same scenario happened at the end of the first, second, or third quarter? If not, why not?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Because the level of incompetence, lack of rules knowledge, and unpreparedness demonstrated by those 3 officials in that situation is above and beyond simply kicking a rule and therefore, the consequences of their failure should be much more severe than the standard punishment.

I think this is just way overboard. It was a bad miss, especially since they had just discussed it with the coaches. I still think it's even money that it wasn't the worse mistake made on the court that night. That honor probably goes to one of the players like it usually does.

I just hope you don't have to live up to this standard when you have the misfortune to make a mistake.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I just hope you don't have to live up to this standard when you have the misfortune to make a mistake.

I have made mistakes in officiating and at my regular job, and I have been penalized accordingly. If I was foolish enough to make this particular mistake, I would expect to be fired from that league/staff. Would that be the end of my career, probably not since we have multiple leagues to work in here. It would however impact the amount and level of games I might get in those other leagues as well.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Is there a chance you would be fired if you made a monumental gaffe at your regular job? I would imagine so. I understand the outcome of a HS basketball game is probably insignificant when compared to what would happen if many of us made a huge mistake at our regular job, but there still needs to be an expectation that things are going to be handled correctly. This was a big mistake made by 3 officials on a very simple rule and play. The loss of a game or two and having a discussion with the members of an association is not a severe enough punishment for what happened.

If only this type of mentality is taken when financial institutions bring a country (and world) to a depression .

Yes, their screw up was major. But to get fired, I don't think so. Maybe X game suspension, plus being downgraded for a year or so. Comparing sports officials and hamburger flippers is apples to oranges.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

If only this type of mentality is taken when financial institutions bring a country (and world) to a depression .

Yes, their screw up was major. But to get fired, I don't think so. Maybe X game suspension, plus being downgraded for a year or so. Comparing sports officials and hamburger flippers is apples to oranges.

If this was a college game at the D1 level, the official would probably be fired from that league. It is not out of the total possibility that could or has happened in the past. Certainly they would have been suspended and in some cases for the rest of the year. Of course like anything in life, it would be based on who the individuals were and their officiating accomplishments. So a State Final guy might get a different penalty than a guy that is working is first year as a varsity official.

Let us not act like this has never happen for things like this in any other situation. And I am not suggesting that all officials should be fired. But something done would not surprise me or be a tragedy either. This is about as bad a mistake you can make and a team lost as a result. I read all the time about how officials are not held accountable by observers that are not officials. Well that is not entirely true, but this would not shock me if there was an example made out of these guys on some level. But to act shocked that is suggested is silly to me on many levels.

Peace

[deecee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If this was a college game at the D1 level, the official would probably be fired from that league. It is not out of the total possibility that could or has happened in the past. Certainly they would have been suspended and in some cases for the rest of the year. Of course like anything in life, it would be based on who the individuals were and their officiating accomplishments. So a State Final guy might get a different penalty than a guy that is working is first year as a varsity official.

Let us not act like this has never happen for things like this in any other situation. And I am not suggesting that all officials should be fired. But something done would not surprise me or be a tragedy either. This is about as bad a mistake you can make and a team lost as a result. I read all the time about how officials are not held accountable by observers that are not officials. Well that is not entirely true, but this would not shock me if there was an example made out of these guys on some level. But to act shocked that is suggested is silly to me on many levels.

Peace

You are correct. I do think ANYTHING can happen to them and I wont be surprised. What I meant to say was that firing is overkill. If they were not ready for this type of game then shouldn't the penalty be shared with the person/people that put them there? I've seen people get fired for nothing, and others who should have been fired get a slap on the wrist. So I can tell you nothing surprises me. It hasn't for a long time.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If this was a college game at the D1 level, the official would probably be fired from that league.

Over the last few years there have been a number of mistakes made in D-1 games which we have discussed on this forum. Most of them were every bit as "egregious" as this mistake...having a hard time thinking of any of those officials who were dropped (fired) by the conference. Most were suspended and saw their schedules cut the following season...but fired?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Over the last few years there have been a number of mistakes made in D-1 games which we have discussed on this forum. Most of them were every bit as "egregious" as this mistake...having a hard time thinking of any of those officials who were dropped (fired) by the conference. Most were suspended and saw their schedules cut the following season...but fired?

You would have to be more specific about mistakes that were just as egregious. I cannot remember any quite on this level. But that being said I know of officials that were let go or not rehired from conferences for not so public reasons.

Peace

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Over the last few years there have been a number of mistakes made in D-1 games which we have discussed on this forum. Most of them were every bit as "egregious" as this mistake...having a hard time thinking of any of those officials who were dropped (fired) by the conference. Most were suspended and saw their schedules cut the following season...but fired?

Most, if not all, of the D1 mistakes we have discussed on this forum were committed by individuals or crews made up of highly rated/high seniority guys. Perhaps their punishment, or lack thereof, was disappointing in its severity. Unfortunately the reality of any situation is that some people are more valuable to organizations than others and will not be treated/punished in the same manner as some other people would for the same activity. Those same mistakes, if made by new D1 hires or people on the bottom tier of the conference staff, would have resulted in a much different penalty.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Most, if not all, of the D1 mistakes we have discussed on this forum were committed by individuals or crews made up of highly rated/high seniority guys. Perhaps their punishment, or lack thereof, was disappointing in its severity. Unfortunately the reality of any situation is that some people are more valuable to organizations than others and will not be treated/punished in the same manner as some other people would for the same activity. Those same mistakes, if made by new D1 hires or people on the bottom tier of the conference staff, would have resulted in a much different penalty.

+1, and there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think we all need to be treated equally in all things. Life is pretty much 100% grey.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Most, if not all, of the D1 mistakes we have discussed on this forum were committed by individuals or crews made up of highly rated/high seniority guys. Perhaps their punishment, or lack thereof, was disappointing in its severity. Unfortunately the reality of any situation is that some people are more valuable to organizations than others and will not be treated/punished in the same manner as some other people would for the same activity. Those same mistakes, if made by new D1 hires or people on the bottom tier of the conference staff, would have resulted in a much different penalty.

How do you know if those officials on that game weren't higher tier varsity guys in that area? Could be the same situation...