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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:50am
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Correctable Error Case Play

A1 is fouled and entitled to two free throws. However, the officials indicate a one-and-one bonus situation. The first attempt is unsuccessful; B4 rebounds the ball and passes it up to B2. The error is discovered with B2 in possession of the live ball near mid-court.

RULING: The error is discovered within the correctable error timeframe, and shall be corrected. Team B securing the rebound and passing to a teammate constitutes no change in team possession. Therefore, A1 will receive the merited free throw with players in lane line spaces and play resumes from the free throw. (2-10-1a)

I dont understand how this is not a change of possession....A is in control when the error is made and B is in control when the game is stopped??? Can someone explain this.

I thought the way this error was handled was clear the lane let A shoot there second free throw give B the ball at the POI and proceed....How is Situation H Which I copied here not administered the same way Situation A is......these to plays seem to contradict themselves to me......is there a mistake in the casebook......

In 2.10.1 Situation H
A1 is fouled prior to the bonus, but erroneously A1 is awarded a one-and-one. The error is discoveredc) after B1 has rebounded the miss on the second free throw; (d) after B1 has the ball for a throw-in after both attempts are successful; (e) after B2 has control of the throw-in from B1 after A1’s two successful throws; or (f) after B1 has rebounded the miss on the second free throw and is fouled by A2.

RULING: In (c), (d) and (e), the successful free throw(s) are canceled and play continues with a throw-in by Team B since B had the ball when the game was interrupted for correction. In (f), the successful free throw is canceled, charge A2’s foul and continue play with either a free throw (bonus) for B1 or throw-in for Team B.

Last edited by phife23; Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 11:59am.
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:57am
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The same comment was noted when FED first added this case play 5 or 6 years ago.

They haven't changed it -- either because they think the case is correct or because they are unaware of the issue or ....
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phife23 View Post
A1 is fouled and entitled to two free throws. However, the officials indicate a one-and-one bonus situation. The first attempt is unsuccessful; B4 rebounds the ball and passes it up to B2. The error is discovered with B2 in possession of the live ball near mid-court.

RULING: The error is discovered within the correctable error timeframe, and shall be corrected. Team B securing the rebound and passing to a teammate constitutes no change in team possession. Therefore, A1 will receive the merited free throw with players in lane line spaces and play resumes from the free throw. (2-10-1a)

I dont understand how this is not a change of possession....A is in control when the error is made and B is in control when the game is stopped??? Can someone explain this.

I thought the way this error was handled was clear the lane let A shoot there second free throw give B the ball at the POI and proceed....
I thought that since we go back and take care of the error and B hasnt scored and changed the possesion back to A yet. That we can just go back a little bit and see if he makes it and if he doesnt the rebounding action of the un-shot throw decides who really gets the ball.
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 12:52pm
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looks like a misprint.
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 01:27pm
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Or, maybe in NFHS world, they don't consider the unmerited free throws as the first possession ... since they were the result of an error.
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 01:53pm
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The correctable error has to be recognized by an official no later than during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started. Changing possession doesn't constitute a dead ball.
A2 shoots 1 and 1 (should be 2 shots)= live ball
misses first one, B1 rebounds = live ball
A2 steals ball = live ball
B3 rejects shot, B4 has possession = live ball
ball goes out of bounds = dead ball
scorer realizes they made an error on free throws = correctable.
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 02:06pm
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This is funny, I was reading this yesterday and noticed that as well. The one that really sounded funny to me was in that same section where there is a foul and Team A should be in the 1 and 1, but the officials allow A to inbound, Team A scores, then the error is caught. The case book says count the bucket and allow A to shoot bonus free throws. That just sounded wrong to me.
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 02:30pm
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Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
This is funny, I was reading this yesterday and noticed that as well. The one that really sounded funny to me was in that same section where there is a foul and Team A should be in the 1 and 1, but the officials allow A to inbound, Team A scores, then the error is caught. The case book says count the bucket and allow A to shoot bonus free throws. That just sounded wrong to me.
Why does that sound wrong? We don't want to cancel any action that has occurred.
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 02:41pm
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Originally Posted by jdd1172 View Post
The correctable error has to be recognized by an official no later than during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started. Changing possession doesn't constitute a dead ball.
A2 shoots 1 and 1 (should be 2 shots)= live ball
misses first one, B1 rebounds = live ball
A2 steals ball = live ball
B3 rejects shot, B4 has possession = live ball
ball goes out of bounds = dead ball
scorer realizes they made an error on free throws = correctable.
All correct, of course, but doesn't match the (either) case play presented at the beginning.

There's no doubt that the first case is still correctable (so A gets the FTs) -- the question is do you resume with a throw in to B or resume from A's FTs? Does the "unless there has been no change of possession" clause in the rule apply? If you believe the case, then the answer is "yes".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
This is funny, I was reading this yesterday and noticed that as well. The one that really sounded funny to me was in that same section where there is a foul and Team A should be in the 1 and 1, but the officials allow A to inbound, Team A scores, then the error is caught. The case book says count the bucket and allow A to shoot bonus free throws. That just sounded wrong to me.
It sounds wrong because it seems (to most) to be "unfair." But, it is correct according to the rule. I have often said that the CE rule is such that *BOTH* teams are incented to get it right before the error because they don't know what will happen after. "("Shh .. don't say anything but A should be shooting FTs and instead they are just taking the ball OOB. ... What do you mean they can now turn this into a 4-point play!? ")
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 04:16pm
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
Why does that sound wrong? We don't want to cancel any action that has occurred.
Because we could potentially give team A two possessions for the price of one, like Bob said. In this case, am I reading it right that once the next dead ball has ended the error can no longer be corrected? So this means that if team B inbounds the ball following the basket in question, its too late? Play on?
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 04:26pm
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Still looking for the answer.....if you consider Situation H a change of possession dont you have to consider Situation A a change of possession........
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:03pm
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Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
Because we could potentially give team A two possessions for the price of one, like Bob said. In this case, am I reading it right that once the next dead ball has ended the error can no longer be corrected? So this means that if team B inbounds the ball following the basket in question, its too late? Play on?
It's the next dead ball after the clock has started. And, B doesn't even need to inbound the ball -- it just needs to be at their disposal.
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:09pm
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Originally Posted by phife23 View Post
Still looking for the answer.....if you consider Situation H a change of possession dont you have to consider Situation A a change of possession........
You can look at 2.10.1G (2011-12 reference -- the one with the held ball) to get an idea of what the FED considers change of posession -- and it seems to be "change ... after the clock starts", so in A there has been no change (B had it the whole time the clock was running)

Still, you won't get a definitive answer here -- most (I think) think that case A is wrong, but since they haven't changed it, you need to decide on your own what to do.

H really has nothing to do with this. The "change of posession" only applies when ther is a failure to award FTs; in H unmerited FTs were awarded.
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Old Thu Nov 28, 2013, 02:48am
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There was on contradiction until a few years ago. Until then, B, having earned the rebound would get the ball after the correction. The ball is in A's possession for the FTs and when B rebounds the ball, that is a change of possession. I'm going with that if it ever happens in my game.
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Old Fri Nov 29, 2013, 09:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phife23 View Post
Still looking for the answer.....if you consider Situation H a change of possession dont you have to consider Situation A a change of possession........
one thought ... In the case where the player is supposed to get 2 and only gets 1 and 1, the error hasn't occured when the ball is at A's disposal. The error only occurs when B rebounds and A is not awarded the 2nd shot. So there has been no change in possession after the error. "Anouncing" 1 and 1 is not the error so at no point during A's possession during the free throw has an error occured.

This is different from when A gets shots and were supposed to get none. The error occurs as soon as A is granted the unmerited free throw. The rebound by B would be a change of possession after the error.
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