First tossed coach of the season!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Adam, if you T'd both AC's, would that be 2 shots, or 4? Would that be 2 Indirect T's to the HC, and require his ejection?

4 shots.
2 indirects to the coach, that's 3 strikes to the champ, and he's out.

[BryanV21]

First of all, I agree with Johnny D that the HC should have been T'd up right away.

It's like allowing teams to get away with a lot of rough play early, and then trying to get them to settle down later in the game. It sounds like this HC thought he could get away with all that chirping, and was taken aback when he was told to calm down. Why not tell him earlier that he needs to dial it back?

I'm not blaming you or your partners for what you/they did or didn't do, I'm just saying things could have possibly been avoided by nipping them in the bud earlier.

As for another official stepping in, we are taught to do that. I know that if I was having a problem with a coach and had to whack him, I'd rather have a partner try and talk to him about it, because chances are that coach doesn't want to hear it from me.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Why not tell him earlier that he needs to dial it back?

I had warned the entire bench about 2 minutes prior to this incident.

I am in a new pool this year...part of being military is starting over every 3-4 years...and they take A LOT from coaches here. We discussed as crews during my first 3 nights and all 3 crews told me "that was just their thing." They say that is why they get so many contracts...and believe me they have this whole part of the state locked down...is because they are "approachable". I came from a pool where we didn't take nothing, and I mean nothing so I am trying to adjust and not be the lone wolf in the pool.

So like I said, about 2 minutes prior I had walked over as they came out of a huddle and told all 3 coaches "your leash is getting short fellas, lets clean this up."

[j51969]

Originally Posted by egj13

I had warned the entire bench about 2 minutes prior to this incident.

I am in a new pool this year...part of being military is starting over every 3-4 years...and they take A LOT from coaches here. We discussed as crews during my first 3 nights and all 3 crews told me "that was just their thing." They say that is why they get so many contracts...and believe me they have this whole part of the state locked down...is because they are "approachable". I came from a pool where we didn't take nothing, and I mean nothing so I am trying to adjust and not be the lone wolf in the pool.

So like I said, about 2 minutes prior I had walked over as they came out of a huddle and told all 3 coaches "your leash is getting short fellas, lets clean this up."

I feel your pain brother. I moved first part of SEP, and starting over again.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by egj13

So like I said, about 2 minutes prior I had walked over as they came out of a huddle and told all 3 coaches "your leash is getting short fellas, lets clean this up."

I'm not a fan of this. I think it would be better to be direct and to the point. No slang, no colloquialisms, nothing vague. "I've heard enough about our calls and I want it stopped." or something to that effect. Then poof, outta there.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

If you really want to keep this coach in the game(personally, I wouldn't), you just issue a single bench technical for the actions of the ASSistants. You can say that one of them said something that was over the line, you're just not sure which one, and that still puts them all on warning.

I have also been taught that once you T a coach, you get out of there and let one of your partners take the position in front of the bench. In a 3 man crew, we generally have the calling official go far side to administer the throw in. That way, if the coach is giving someone an earful right then that requires a second T, it's a DIFFERENT official that makes the call. And if it's the same official calling the T, it's pretty likely that everyone in the gym knows why he got it.

[fullor30]

BV already? Season doesn't start around here until next week. Where are you?

[fullor30]

Part of me thinks I hit him a little quick but I was already thinking I didn't want to hear this fella for 32 minutes.

Agreed

[BatteryPowered]

We are instructed to step in and "run interference" for a partner if they T a coach. There are two reasons given; 1: many officials get their juices flowing then they T a coach and it gives them a chance to gather themselves 2: if said coach continues and earns a second T it doesn't look like it is a personal thing between him and one official.

I actually had two partners in a camp game get blasted by the evaluator becuase of this. We had a quite game until about 2 minutes remaining. Coach goes off after an obvious call and almost meets me near center court. Before I can even report the foul and tech he is losing his mind and calling me a racist. I keep waiting for a partner to show up but nope. An AC runs out and I think he is going to try to pull the HC back...wrong. He starts yelling so I pop him. About that time a dad comes on the floor and grabs the HC but AC keeps going...T number 2...both are gone. Dad that started off helping turns around and starts yelling at me...that is when some evaluators run out and grab the dad. I call the game and point to the door. Our evaluator gets into the hallway about the same time we do and I yell "Where the he l l were you two?" Evaluator stops me and said "I got this" and lets them have it. Before he stopped I actually felt sorry for them.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

We are instructed to step in and "run interference" for a partner if they T a coach. There are two reasons given; 1: many officials get their juices flowing then they T a coach and it gives them a chance to gather themselves 2: if said coach continues and earns a second T it doesn't look like it is a personal thing between him and one official.

I actually had two partners in a camp game get blasted by the evaluator becuase of this. We had a quite game until about 2 minutes remaining. Coach goes off after an obvious call and almost meets me near center court. Before I can even report the foul and tech he is losing his mind and calling me a racist. I keep waiting for a partner to show up but nope. An AC runs out and I think he is going to try to pull the HC back...wrong. He starts yelling so I pop him. About that time a dad comes on the floor and grabs the HC but AC keeps going...T number 2...both are gone. Dad that started off helping turns around and starts yelling at me...that is when some evaluators run out and grab the dad. I call the game and point to the door. Our evaluator gets into the hallway about the same time we do and I yell "Where the he l l were you two?" Evaluator stops me and said "I got this" and lets them have it. Before he stopped I actually felt sorry for them.

This is news to me. At every college camp I have ever been at where this type of situation has been discussed the advice has been to call the foul report it and have all referees vacate the area. They do not want or expect the non-calling officials trying to calm coaches down or discuss the call with them. The coach knows what he got the T for and it is his responsibility or his assistants responsibility to get him calmed down and ready to move on. When there are no officials near him to talk to, argue with or yell at, a new play has been created. The coach can continue his behavior, making the second T much easier to call or he can go back to his bench, calm himself down and move on. There is never any reason for any official to discuss a T on a coach for behavior related issues.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by johnny d

This is news to me. At every college camp I have ever been at where this type of situation has been discussed the advice has been to call the foul report it and have all referees vacate the area. They do not want or expect the non-calling officials trying to calm coaches down or discuss the call with them. The coach knows what he got the T for and it is his responsibility or his assistants responsibility to get him calmed down and ready to move on. When there are no officials near him to talk to, argue with or yell at, a new play has been created. The coach can continue his behavior, making the second T much easier to call or he can go back to his bench, calm himself down and move on. There is never any reason for any official to discuss a T on a coach for behavior related issues.

That's fine...this was not a college camp. I would imagine lots of things would be different. And the partners are not there to calm down the coach...they are there to get the official out of an emotionally tense situation.

Like it or not, every official is not a top notch, emotionally neutral final four official who has complete contol of all of his faculties 100% of the time. I have seen on multiple occassions where a partner T's up a coach and I can tell by his demeanor and voice that he is "amped up". The powers that be in our area feel it is best for the "emotional" official to vacate the area as quickly as possible. If that means a partner (especially in a 3-man crew) coming in and getting between the official and the coach that is what is expected. Additionally, if the coach gets a second and is tossed other officials in the crew don't have to put in their report to the state "I was keeping myself busy getting everyone ready for the free-throws. My partner is an adult and needs to learn to handle his business. Talk to him if you want to know what happened." By stepping in and giving their partner a chance to report and leave and reminding the coach he has lost the box they now have first hand knowledge of what happens and what is said in the event an ejection is earned. They do not go in to discuss things with the coach.

Some may not think it is best approach...but it is the expected course of action here.

[Rich]

I've only had two basketball head coach ejections in 27 years (1 varsity and 1 JV), but I'll admit there were 1-2 more that I probably missed in an effort to "keep him in the game."

I'll also say that I've only run into one coach in my 12 years in WI that sounds as out of control as the coach in the OP (and that was one of my misses).

If I was going to keep them in the game, I would've whacked one assistant and tell them that, "someone's going home on the next one."

Keeping this head coach in the game wouldn't make you more approachable -- it would've made you and your crew doormats. But apparently the board you work on now may operate that way. Tough for you, no doubt.

(And 3 on one requires your presence. But the guy that whacked the coach should've gotten out of there himself.)

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by egj13

... just thought he was some blowhard JV assistant.

That, my friend, was your first mistake!

There is NO SUCH THING as a blowhard assistant! Assistants get ZERO tolerance...just like a player on the bench.

Do not let Assistants get on your A$$!

This Coach might have figured he got away with being an A$$ as an assistant...so in his mind, he surely can keep it up as a Head Coach in the next game.

He deserved what he got...but, you could have shown him what it's about when he started acting like a jerk in the previous game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Head Coach in the next game ... started acting like a jerk in the previous game.

Several years ago, we had a fairly inexperienced junior varsity official eject the varsity head coach, who was sitting on, and complaining from, the junior varsity bench, in the junior varsity game. By state association rules, he had to sit out the varsity game and have his assistant coach the varsity game that night. That varsity head coach was always a "pebble in our shoe". The junior varsity official got a standing ovation at out next meeting.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

That, my friend, was your first mistake!

There is NO SUCH THING as a blowhard assistant! Assistants get ZERO tolerance...just like a player on the bench.

Do not let Assistants get on your A$$!

This Coach might have figured he got away with being an A$$ as an assistant...so in his mind, he surely can keep it up as a Head Coach in the next game.

He deserved what he got...but, you could have shown him what it's about when he started acting like a jerk in the previous game.

He wasn't being an ass to us in the JV game but he was on the players in a way that made me feel uncomfortable. To quantify that statement...Bobby Knight is my personal coaching idol...so if this cat was making me unconfortable he was being an ass. Thus, I just thought he was a blowhard assistant.