pivot after jump stop

[wanja]

Question, an offensive player, dribbling the ball performs a legal "landing on 2 feet jump stop". What are the players options from that point? Several officials discussed whether that player can now pivot, other officials contend the player must shoot or pass from that point. What can that player do ? thanks.

Response:

NCAA rule 4-22 defines a jump stop. NFHS rule 4-44 does not use that terminology but is consistent with the NCAA rule.

NCAA rule 4-22 states:

Article 1: A jump stop is executed when a player catches the ball while moving or dribbling with:

a. One foot on the playing court, jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).
b. Two feet off the playing court, lands on one foot, jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).

Article 2 . A jump stop may also be executed when the dribble has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot).

Thus for both NCAA and NFHS, a pivot can only be established after a jump stop if the player ends the dribble with both feet off the court as in Article 2 above. Otherwise, the player can only legally hold, shoot or pass while the ball remains live.

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I have missed this in the past and am looking for a confirmation or clarification.

[potato]

You already stated the 2 options available depending whether the player established a pivot before landing on both feet. If he did he won't be able to pivot, if he didn't, he can still pivot on 1 chosen foot.

"A jump stop is executed when a player catches the ball while moving or dribbling with:"

We see jump stop for players during a running motion, so how about this:

Player A dribbles, ends the dribble by standing on 1 foot on the floor, he just stood there for a second, so is the player allowed to do a jump stop with no pivoting foot?

Since the statement says while moving OR dribbling, and doesn't use the word continuous motion, how do we determine if the player is allowed to jump stop or not?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by potato

Since the statement says while moving OR dribbling, and doesn't use the word continuous motion, how do we determine if the player is allowed to jump stop or not?

It says "catches" while moving or dribbling. In your play, s/he caught the ball while dribbling. Let him/her jump.

[potato]

so it is technically allowed as long as a person catches his ball while dribbling with one foot on the floor, stops for few seconds, do a few pump fakes, then jump on that foot & lands on both feet simultaneously? although rare & never seen before, it'd probably look pretty awkward if you imagine it.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It says "catches" while moving or dribbling. In your play, s/he caught the ball while dribbling. Let him/her jump.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by potato

If the person hasn't established pivot & jumps & lands on 1 foot 1st, then that foot is the pivot foot, he can land his non-pivot foot.

For a person to not have established a pivot foot, s/he is either in the air (and can't jump), or has both feet on the floor (and any jump is illegal), or is on one foot (and then you can't land on 1 foot first).

One question, the rule says you can jump off your pivot foot and land on both feet simultaneously & no pivot foot allowed, so if instead of landing on both feet, the player landed on 1 of his feet, i would assume it's a travel if he landed on his pivot foot, and no travel if he landed on his non-pivot foot?

The rule does NOT say you can jump off your pivot foot and land on both feet. You can jump if the one foot is not yet the pivot foot, but you must either land with both feet simultaneously (neither foot can be the pivot) or land on the other foot alone (which makes the first foot the pivot foot). This is nothing different from the steps in a lay-up. If the (now-determined) pivot foot touches the floor, it's travelling.

Originally Posted by potato

so it is technically allowed as long as a person catches his ball while dribbling with one foot on the floor, stops for few seconds, do a few pump fakes, then jump on that foot & lands on both feet simultaneously? although rare & never seen before, it'd probably look pretty awkward if you imagine it.

Awkward <> illegal.

[potato]

Now there's 2 jumpstops:

1.Catch the ball in the air after the jump & lands both feet simultaneously = pivot allowed.

2.Catch the ball with one foot on the ground & jumps off that foot & land on both feet = pivot not allowed.

so isn't the 2nd case considered pivot foot established before the jump?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

For a person to not have established a pivot foot, s/he is either in the air (and can't jump), or has both feet on the floor (and any jump is illegal), or is on one foot (and then you can't land on 1 foot first).



The rule does NOT say you can jump off your pivot foot and land on both feet. You can jump if the one foot is not yet the pivot foot, but you must either land with both feet simultaneously (neither foot can be the pivot) or land on the other foot alone (which makes the first foot the pivot foot). This is nothing different from the steps in a lay-up. If the (now-determined) pivot foot touches the floor, it's travelling.




Awkward <> illegal.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by potato

You already stated the 2 options available depending whether the player established a pivot before landing on both feet. If he did he won't be able to pivot, if he didn't, he can still pivot on 1 chosen foot.

"A jump stop is executed when a player catches the ball while moving or dribbling with:"

We see jump stop for players during a running motion, so how about this:

Player A dribbles, ends the dribble by standing on 1 foot on the floor, he just stood there for a second, so is the player allowed to do a jump stop with no pivoting foot?

Since the statement says while moving OR dribbling, and doesn't use the word continuous motion, how do we determine if the player is allowed to jump stop or not?

Because continous motion is a term used for whether or not a person is in the act of shooting.

Officials understand the rule wanja posted.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by potato

You already stated the 2 options available depending whether the player established a pivot before landing on both feet. If he did he won't be able to pivot, if he didn't, he can still pivot on 1 chosen foot.

This has nothing to do with whether a pivot can legally be executed. It's not about whether the ball is gathered before or after the player lands on both feet.

The distinction is made based on whether the ball was gathered before or after the player jumps off of one foot. If before, then no pivot. If the gather is while the player is airborne, and he lands on both feet, then he can pivot with either foot.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by wanja

Question, an offensive player, dribbling the ball performs a legal "landing on 2 feet jump stop". What are the players options from that point? Several officials discussed whether that player can now pivot, other officials contend the player must shoot or pass from that point. What can that player do ? thanks.

Response:

NCAA rule 4-22 defines a jump stop. NFHS rule 4-44 does not use that terminology but is consistent with the NCAA rule.

NCAA rule 4-22 states:

Article 1: A jump stop is executed when a player catches the ball while moving or dribbling with:

a. One foot on the playing court, jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).
b. Two feet off the playing court, lands on one foot, jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).

Article 2 . A jump stop may also be executed when the dribble has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot).

Thus for both NCAA and NFHS, a pivot can only be established after a jump stop if the player ends the dribble with both feet off the court as in Article 2 above. Otherwise, the player can only legally hold, shoot or pass while the ball remains live.

---
I have missed this in the past and am looking for a confirmation or clarification.

The rule spells it out quite well. If the dribble has ended and you jump off one foot then land on 2 feet you get no pivot. If you gather the ball while in the air and land on 2 feet you get a pivot foot b/c that is no different than landing after catching a pass or grabbing a rebound.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by wanja

Question, an offensive player, dribbling the ball performs a legal "landing on 2 feet jump stop". What are the players options from that point? Several officials discussed whether that player can now pivot, other officials contend the player must shoot or pass from that point. What can that player do ? thanks.

Most officials and coaches do not (In my experience) understand the two definitions of "jump stop" that you provided. Further, coaches tend to use the second definition (allowing the pivot) and officials the first (not allowing the pivot).

[ballgame99]

The gather and the jump are typically fairly simultaneous in my experience since this move is typically done going to the basket. So unless the gather is clearly before liftoff you almost have to allow a pivot on landing don't you? That is how I have called it anyway. And they better stick the landing with two feet (ie no gallop) or its a travel.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

The gather and the jump are typically fairly simultaneous in my experience since this move is typically done going to the basket. So unless the gather is clearly before liftoff you almost have to allow a pivot on landing don't you? That is how I have called it anyway. And they better stick the landing with two feet (ie no gallop) or its a travel.

I've seen many gathers while a foot is on the ground. I try to train my eyes to pay attention to the disctinction.

[potato]

If the person hasn't established pivot & jumps & lands on 1 foot 1st, then that foot is the pivot foot, he can land his non-pivot foot.

One question, the rule says you can jump off your pivot foot and land on both feet simultaneously & no pivot foot allowed, so if instead of landing on both feet, the player landed on 1 of his feet, i would assume it's a travel if he landed on his pivot foot, and no travel if he landed on his non-pivot foot?

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I've seen many gathers while a foot is on the ground. I try to train my eyes to pay attention to the disctinction.

[jump stop]

Originally Posted by potato

If the person hasn't established pivot & jumps & lands on 1 foot 1st, then that foot is the pivot foot, he can land his non-pivot foot.

One question, the rule says you can jump off your pivot foot and land on both feet simultaneously & no pivot foot allowed, so if instead of landing on both feet, the player landed on 1 of his feet, i would assume it's a travel if he landed on his pivot foot, and no travel if he landed on his non-pivot foot?

Watch this video, I hope this clears up some misconceptions


Potato : The rule does not say "you can jump off o pivot foot" it says if you "catch the ball while dribbling or moving with one foot on floor , you may jump off this foot and land simultaneously on two"

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

The gather and the jump are typically fairly simultaneous in my experience since this move is typically done going to the basket. So unless the gather is clearly before liftoff you almost have to allow a pivot on landing don't you? That is how I have called it anyway. And they better stick the landing with two feet (ie no gallop) or its a travel.

If you're going to allow a pivot if they land on two feet simultaneously, then it isn't a travel if they "gallop" on landing -- but the pivot foot is now defined as the first foot to hit.