Jump stop/pivot/step

[dave30]

I know it is travelling if a player does a jump stop and then takes a step or pivots. It is also travelling if a player's feet do not land simultaneously.

Is this rule different in college?

I saw a Wisconsin player do a jump stop. The left foot may have hit the ground a split second before the right foot. I could see missing that. But, then he took a step with his right foot and made the shot. No call was made.

Is there a lot more leniency on player's going to the basket in college? Is the rule different from high school?

Just wondering because this is the call I have the most trouble with in high school. Player's sometimes jump and go to the basket with two big steps and it's legal, but sometimes it is a jump stop and it's travelling when they step. Does it have to do with picking up the ball before jumping or keeping the dribble alive and grabbing the ball while in the air?

Can anyone explain it in a way that will help me get this call right every time?


The other tough call for me is deciding when a player lowers his shoulder on a move and the defender gets position and flops after no contact (or minor contact). Sometimes it looks like a player control foul but it really isn't and sometimes it is a foul due to the contact. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes.

[Juulie Downs]

It depends on what you're calling a jump stop. If the player had the ball gathered (dribble ended) in the air and then the player landed on both feet, he can take one more step. If he had it gathered as he jumped off one foot, and then landed on both feet, he can't.

[dave30]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

It depends on what you're calling a jump stop. If the player had the ball gathered (dribble ended) in the air and then the player landed on both feet, he can take one more step. If he had it gathered as he jumped off one foot, and then landed on both feet, he can't.

If a player gathers the ball in the air and lands .... then his feet do not have to hit at the same time..... if it is not on a move to the basket, then the first foot to hit is the pivot foot. If it is a move to the basket, then it like two steps on a layup. Do I have it right now?

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by dave30

If a player gathers the ball in the air and lands .... then his feet do not have to hit at the same time..... if it is not on a move to the basket, then the first foot to hit is the pivot foot. If it is a move to the basket, then it like two steps on a layup. Do I have it right now?

well, sort of. whether or not it's a move to the basket doesn't really matter, as far as the rules go.

The feet don't have to hit exactly perfectly simultaneously to be a jump stop. Should be pretty close, though. If he gathers ball in the air, lands on both feet, either foot can be the pivot. He can then step off the non-pivot foot to shoot or pass, but can't put the pivot foot back down again, so it's more or less one step, as long as that step isn't taken by the pivot foot. That's all true whether or not you consider what he's doing a "move to the basket".

You're right that if he gathers in the air, he can land on one foot which then becomes the pivot foot, and then step onto the other foot and jump up to shoot or pass. So it's more or less two steps after the gather. It's just that the rule isn't defined in terms of the number of steps so when you word your play that way, it's a little hard to just say "yes" or "no".

A better way to describe travel/no-travel questions is with regard to the pivot foot. The whole question is laid out in relation to when the pivot foot is established, and which foot is the pivot. When you know which foot is the pivot, and when everything else happened in relation to that, you've got it made!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

If he/she gathers ball in the air, lands on both feet, either foot can be the pivot. He/she can then step off the non-pivot foot to shoot or pass, but can't put the pivot foot back down again.

If he/she gathers in the air, he/she can land on one foot which then becomes the pivot foot, and then step onto the other foot and jump up to shoot or pass. The rule isn't defined in terms of the number of steps.

A better way to describe travel/no-travel questions is with regard to the pivot foot. The whole question is laid out in relation to when the pivot foot is established, and which foot is the pivot. When you know which foot is the pivot, and when everything else happened in relation to that, you've got it made!

Juulie Downs: Well put. This should be printed, enlarged, and posted in every sports bar for the next two weeks.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

The feet don't have to hit exactly perfectly simultaneously. Should be pretty close, though.

Huh? Either the feet land simultaneously, or they don't. If they land simultaneously, then either foot can be the pivot foot. If they don't land simultaneously, then the foot that lands first becomes the pivot foot.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Juulie Downs: Well put. This should be printed, enlarged, and posted in every sports bar for the next two weeks.

I worked a boys varsity game in a small town rivalry that went to the buzzer and we got the DVD. The visiting team was well coached in the jump stop and listening to the announcers was hilarious. They acknowledged the legality of the jump stop, but called it a "jump step" the entire game and then told everyone how much they hated it, especially on a play where the kid jumped off one foot and was fouled coming down into the jump stop (the defender stepped in and the kid with the ball pretty much landed on him).

That said, we did miss one during the game -- the feet came down very fast and only with a number of replays did it become obvious the feet didn't come down simultaneously when they needed to, by rule. It was in a tough place to get 2-person, but it's one thing I need to work at next year -- moving more aggressively to get angles as the trail in these types of situations.

[dave30]

If you pick up the dribble and then jump and the feet land simultaneously; then you do not have a pivot foot though. You have to shoot or pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dave30

If you pick up the dribble and then jump and the feet land simultaneously; then you do not have a pivot foot though. You have to shoot or pass.

Or request TO. However, that player may lift one or both feet off the floor before doing so.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by dave30

If you pick up the dribble and then jump and the feet land simultaneously; then you do not have a pivot foot though. You have to shoot or pass.

Are you sure? This sounds like a normal jump stop to me, where the player may use either foot as a pivot foot. Are you confusing this where a player, who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, stops on one foot, jumps off that foot, simultaneously lands on both feet, and neither foot can be a pivot foot?

Long time Forum members will back me up on this: I very seldom post on a thread that involves traveling, because it's one of my weaknesses as an official. I usually just sit back and read everyone else's posts, trying to learn something. I hesitated to post on this thread, but I need to know the correct answer, which is why I took a stab at it. How did I do?

[Adam]

Billy, his order of events is "pick up dribble," "jump," then "lands on both feet." In that order. No pivot foot is allowed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Billy, his order of events is "pick up dribble," "jump," then "lands on both feet." In that order. No pivot foot is allowed.

Thanks for the help. So you're saying that the player, in dave30's post, doesn't pick up his dribble in the air, and then land on two feet simultaneously, which I think I was describing as legal. Instead, in dave30's post, the player picks up his dribble with his feet on the ground, and then jumps to land on two feet simultaneously, in which case he can only lift a foot to pass, shoot, or, as you pointed out earlier, request a timeout.

This is why I don't usually post on travel rules, and interpretations. I would rather see it, and then make the call. Don't hold your breath until my next travel post. You'll be long dead, unless you're on a respirator.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Billy, his order of events is "pick up dribble," "jump," then "lands on both feet." In that order. No pivot foot is allowed.

He better specify "jumps off one foot," or when he lands he won't have to worry about a pivot foot, because it will be a travel.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Thanks for the help. So you're saying that the player, in dave30's post, doesn't pick up his dribble in the air, and then land on two feet simultaneously, which I think I was describing as legal. Instead, in dave30's post, the player picks up his dribble with his feet on the ground, and then jumps to land on two feet simultaneously, in which case he can only lift a foot to pass, shoot, or, as you pointed out earlier, request a timeout.

This is why I don't usually post on travel rules, and interpretations. I would rather see it, and then make the call. Don't hold your breath until my next travel post. You'll be long dead, unless you're on a respirator.

No, the player picks the ball up with one foot on the floor then jumps off that foot, landing on both simultaneously.

Originally Posted by just another ref

He better specify "jumps off one foot," or when he lands he won't have to worry about a pivot foot, because it will be a travel.

Good clarification.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

He better specify "jumps off one foot," or when he lands he won't have to worry about a pivot foot, because it will be a travel.

Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:

1) A player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor, may pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot.

2) A player, who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:

a. If both feet are off the floor and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot.
3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.

b. If one foot is on the floor:
1. It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step.
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.

3) After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

4) After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. Neither foot may be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

5) A player holding the ball:
a. May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.
b. After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

Don't believe everything Robert Frost wrote.