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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 06:36pm
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Jump stop then pivot...Travel?

I found myself in the middle of a rules clinic following a game yesterday. The coach was concerned that we were calling a travel when his players jump stopped then pivot.
He was under the impression that many coaching/training videos instruct you do this.
Here are some examples of what he was talking about.
Hoop Group Skills Drill of the Week- Jump Stop/ Pivot/ Pass - YouTube

It seems the key that the players and coach are missing is the point where the ball is gathered. During the game they were gathering the ball with a foot on the floor, jumping off that foot, landing on both feet simultaneously, then creating a pivot.

If while they were still dribbling when they jumped in the air, then gathered the ball, followed by landing on both feet simultaneously, then they could legally create a pivot. Correct?

What do you think about the moves in the video? Legal or no?
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 06:40pm
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 06:42pm
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Those plays in the video all look good to me.
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 06:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Those plays in the video all look good to me.
AllPurp because the dribble doesn't stop while either player has a foot on the floor?

The dribble is ending with both feet off the floor and then they land on both feet, right?
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 07:04pm
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Originally Posted by The R View Post
AllPurp because the dribble doesn't stop while either player has a foot on the floor?

The dribble is ending with both feet off the floor and then they land on both feet, right?
That's how I'm seeing the video.

You're correct about jumping off a foot after gathering the ball. 4-44-2-a-3
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Last edited by Adam; Sat Jan 14, 2012 at 07:12pm.
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 07:06pm
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Originally Posted by The R View Post
AllPurp because the dribble doesn't stop while either player has a foot on the floor?

The dribble is ending with both feet off the floor and then they land on both feet, right?
Yes, that's how I see it. In fact, that's the form of the jump stop I see most often...the player gathering while airborne.
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2012, 11:30am
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Mistaken terminology

The video is not demonstrating a "jump-stop." It is demonstrating "coming to a stop on both feet." Each instance in the video is performed by gather ing the ball while in the air, and then coming to a stop on both feet, and then pivoting, which is legal - (4-44-2-a-1.)
If it were a true "jump-stop", then a pivot would be illegal. A true "jump-stop" is performed by gathering the ball while in the air, landing on one foot, and then proceeding to both feet, simultaneously - (4-44-2-a-3.) (And if anyone is counting, a subsequent travel constitutes four steps, or contact points with a foot and the floor.)
Some will include in the definition/description of a "jump-stop", 4-44-2-b, which seems to more apply to gathering the ball while stationary, and on one foot, and then jumping off that foot and simultaneously landing on both feet.
Both 4-44-2-a and b, conclude with the statement: "Neither foot can (legally) be a pivot foot."
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2012, 11:40am
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Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
The video is not demonstrating a "jump-stop." It is demonstrating "coming to a stop on both feet." Each instance in the video is performed by gather ing the ball while in the air, and then coming to a stop on both feet, and then pivoting, which is legal - (4-44-2-a-1.)
If it were a true "jump-stop", then a pivot would be illegal. A true "jump-stop" is performed by gathering the ball while in the air, landing on one foot,
NFHS does not define "jump stop" (iirc).

NCAA defines it as either (or both) of the above.

So, either way, when a coach (or parent) asks, "Can a player pivot after a jump stop?" the answer should be, "It depends."
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2012, 11:54am
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
NFHS does not define "jump stop" (iirc).

NCAA defines it as either (or both) of the above.

So, either way, when a coach (or parent) asks, "Can a player pivot after a jump stop?" the answer should be, "It depends."
I was unaware that NCAA has a definition of the term. Most of the terms used in coaching, playing, officiating basketball have come about by assigning some name to an action that is defined in the rules, whether legal or illegal, a verbal reverse-engineering, if one will, drop-step, and jump-stop being examples.
Unfortunately, some of the self-appointed instructors on the internet assign names to actions that are poor and/or incomplete/incorrect use of existent terms.
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2012, 11:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
The video is not demonstrating a "jump-stop." It is demonstrating "coming to a stop on both feet." Each instance in the video is performed by gather ing the ball while in the air, and then coming to a stop on both feet, and then pivoting, which is legal - (4-44-2-a-1.)
If it were a true "jump-stop", then a pivot would be illegal. A true "jump-stop" is performed by gathering the ball while in the air, landing on one foot, and then proceeding to both feet, simultaneously - (4-44-2-a-3.) (And if anyone is counting, a subsequent travel constitutes four steps, or contact points with a foot and the floor.)
Some will include in the definition/description of a "jump-stop", 4-44-2-b, which seems to more apply to gathering the ball while stationary, and on one foot, and then jumping off that foot and simultaneously landing on both feet.
Both 4-44-2-a and b, conclude with the statement: "Neither foot can (legally) be a pivot foot."
Excellent response, agree 100%. About two months ago we had a thread that was titled something like, "Good you make the call traveling videos" Some true jump stops were shown along with some other moves that are good for me to review.
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2012, 12:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
The video is not demonstrating a "jump-stop." It is demonstrating "coming to a stop on both feet." Each instance in the video is performed by gather ing the ball while in the air, and then coming to a stop on both feet, and then pivoting, which is legal - (4-44-2-a-1.)
If it were a true "jump-stop", then a pivot would be illegal. A true "jump-stop" is performed by gathering the ball while in the air, landing on one foot, and then proceeding to both feet, simultaneously - (4-44-2-a-3.) (And if anyone is counting, a subsequent travel constitutes four steps, or contact points with a foot and the floor.)
Some will include in the definition/description of a "jump-stop", 4-44-2-b, which seems to more apply to gathering the ball while stationary, and on one foot, and then jumping off that foot and simultaneously landing on both feet.
Both 4-44-2-a and b, conclude with the statement: "Neither foot can (legally) be a pivot foot."
The NFHS hasn't defined a jump stop...all the NFHS has done is describe situations in which a player may or may not pivot.
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2012, 12:03pm
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
The NFHS hasn't defined a jump stop...all the NFHS has done is describe situations in which a player may or may not pivot.
I agree. Please, see Post #9.
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2012, 02:20pm
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I have tried to study the jump stop extensively (hence my name) as I teach it to young kids. The smaller girl in the video comes much closer to "gathering or catching " the ball with one foot on floor than the taller girl. In fact at 2:14 and 2:45 you could make an agrument that one foot is on floor as she gathers.
With that being said, at full speed it is impossible to tell, only if I pause it can I determine. My point is unless it is blatently obvious that one foot was on the floor while gathering the ball you can't be for sure if it is a travel in this case.
I even made a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Nvnsy3Ivw

Last edited by jump stop; Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 02:29pm.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2012, 03:43am
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What if feet don't land simultaneously when ball is gathered on one foot and then the jump?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-lIL...reply_received
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2012, 05:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
What if feet don't land simultaneously when ball is gathered on one foot and then the jump?
Controversial High School Basketball Call - YouTube
The video explains it all: it's a travel.
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