Airborne Shooter purposely drops ball

[potato]

does it matter if it's a pass or dribble unless the player just caught the ball while in the air (from a pass or rebound), since you can't catch your own pass and you can't dribble if you got the ball before jumping.

if it was an alleyoop or rebound he probably can do start a dribble.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

What exactly is pushing then? Exactly how much force is required for it to be a push.


When the ball leaves a players hands under their control, it is only one of three things...a try, a pass, or a dribble and it is such the moment it leaves their hands. The differences is entirely in intent and judging which is what we get paid for. Some will bring up the point about not judging intent but that doesn't really work because you have to judge intent when it comes to a try when determining if it is a shooting foul or whether they payer can retrieve an air ball. If you can determine that, it really isn't a stretch to expect an official to be able to tell if it is a dribble or a pass based on how it is released.

If it is remotely to another player, I'm OK with calling it a pass. But when it is clearly not to another player when it leaves the hands, and the player only put the ball on the floor with no teammate anywhere near to avoid getting it blocked, that defender that forced the action deserves violation call.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by potato

If it was an alleyoop or rebound he probably can do start a dribble.

Not if he's already lifted his pivot foot for a try, or a pass (which is what this thread is all about).

[potato]

Well since the initial post did not state what happened before the player dropped the ball, whether he ended a dribble & jumped or he received the ball while airborne, i just though i took it into consideration on a 2nd case where no pivot has yet been established.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not if he's already lifted his pivot foot for a try, or a pass (which is what this thread is all about).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by potato

Well since the initial post did not state what happened before the player dropped the ball, whether he ended a dribble & jumped or he received the ball while airborne, i just though i took it into consideration on a 2nd case where no pivot has yet been established.

If the player received a pass while airborne there would have been no reason for this discussion.

[potato]

well it could still be a violation if he touched his own pass. but if he dropped the ball & touches it would you see it as a violation or just treat it as a dribble?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by potato

well it could still be a violation if he touched his own pass. but if he dropped the ball & touches it would you see it as a violation or just treat it as a dribble?

Depends on different things, for example:

1) if he dribbled already
2) did he pick up his pivot foot before releasing the ball

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by potato

well it could still be a violation if he touched his own pass.

No, it wouldn't.

There is no rule about "catching your own pass." there is a rule about moving your pivot foot which is what USUALLY happens. But when it doesn't ...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by potato

well it could still be a violation if he touched his own pass.

Why?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by potato

does it matter if it's a pass or dribble unless the player just caught the ball while in the air (from a pass or rebound), since you can't catch your own pass and you can't dribble if you got the ball before jumping.

if it was an alleyoop or rebound he probably can do start a dribble.

I don't know what you are asking.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by potato

does it matter if it's a pass or dribble unless the player just caught the ball while in the air (from a pass or rebound), since you can't catch your own pass and you can't dribble if you got the ball before jumping.

What I think you're asking: "Why are you guys arguing about whether it's a pass or a dribble since either one is illegal?"

If that is correct, then you are right that once A1 touches the ball the play is illegal. But if it's (determined to be) a pass, then it's not illegal until it's touched by A1. If it's (determined to be) a dribble, then it *might* be illegal as soon as A1 begins the dribble. And, you *might* not be able to determine which it is until later (or maybe you can make such a determination). That's the focus of the discussion.

if it was an alleyoop or rebound he probably can do start a dribble.

No "probably" about it, and also not the play we are discussing.

[potato]

assuming the player established a pivot before he jumped, the player can't dribble anymore because he already lifted his pivot before releasing the ball so it'd be a travel right?

unless he merely came into contact with the ball while on the floor & yet catch/secure the ball and only manage to do it while already airborne, this case he hasn't established a pivot until he has landed, so he can actually just hold the ball until he land or "drop" the ball as a mean to start a dribble.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If that is correct, then you are right that once A1 touches the ball the play is illegal. But if it's (determined to be) a pass, then it's not illegal until it's touched by A1. If it's (determined to be) a dribble, then it *might* be illegal as soon as A1 begins the dribble. And, you *might* not be able to determine which it is until later (or maybe you can make such a determination). That's the focus of the discussion.