Jump ball-Held Ball (Video)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dsavitzky

Hey, all. First time posting. I just graduated from USC, and I'm getting certified to officiate high school games for the first time with the CBOA in October. Just thought I'd start participating, as this forum has proven to be a gold mine for someone like me looking to improve and get off on the right foot.

Anyway, I think the right call here is probably that the AP procedure was not yet established and this should be a rejump, but I think you could make the argument that Red had control of the ball before the held ball (the Red player might get both hands on the ball before or at the same time that White gets one hand on the ball), and thus it should be an AP throw-in for White.

If red had it first, it was by such a slim margin that you can't even tell for sure on video. Go with the a re-jump.

Now, here's the question for you since you're just getting started.

Who jumps?

[BEAREF]

If this happened in my game it would be a re-jump between Red #15 and White #30.

In my judgement there was no control prior to the held ball.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

If this happened in my game it would be a re-jump between Red #15 and White #30. In my judgement there was no control prior to the held ball.

Correct assessment of the proper ruling!

Just one side note rant...
I truly detest hearing that phrase "in my game...". That phrase I've too often heard around our area to egocentrically justify calling/no-calling something contrary to clearly established rule, procedure or protocol. As if "my game" carries some exceptional weight that out trumps what you "in your game" -- "if you dare be so stupid as to disagree with me and my disregard for an obvious rule".

"In my game, we don't call 'Carrying the Ball'". "In my game, we don't give charges when the collision occurs under the basket." "In my game, we don't call three seconds." "In my game we don't care what kind of accessories they're wearing." Blah, blah, blah.

However, "your game" would be marked by a correct application of 7-3-2 in the above sitch. As infrequently as it occurs, it is something to pregame so that when it happens the crew gets it right in "your game." Excellent analysis!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Adam

If red had it first, it was by such a slim margin that you can't even tell for sure on video. Go with the a re-jump.

Now, here's the question for you since you're just getting started.

Who jumps?

Damn. That's what I was going to ask. Hint: It might depend on the rules code.

[dsavitzky]

Originally Posted by Adam

If red had it first, it was by such a slim margin that you can't even tell for sure on video. Go with the a re-jump.

Now, here's the question for you since you're just getting started.

Who jumps?

The rejump's between the two players involved in the held ball(didn't bother to watch the video again to see their numbers).

[referee99]

Can I imagine a scenario where I would grant a time out request to the red player? Yes.
Things occur quickly on the play, but red grabs the ball and then white ties him up.

[JRutledge]

For the record I posted this for this kind of discussion.

But since I was one of the officials on this play, I clearly saw possession by the Red player first. Part of the discussion I had with my partner was asking if he had the same thing. He did so we went with a held ball and possession to white. It was not as clear on the video as I had a clear look at the Red player and how his hands were on the ball. Actually the White player as I remember it correctly only tied the ball up after the second attempt to grab the ball. The video does not confirm that as the ball is mostly hidden from the camera angle. And most of all, it was close and why we get paid the big bucks.

Peace

[Adam]

Jeff, that's a good point. The camera angle doesn't give us enough information on when red actually had control. But obviously the R has a great angle to see red's possession.

[JRutledge]

The U1 had a great angle too, which is why we went with a held ball after possession. All I did was ask him, "Do you have possession by Red first then a held ball?" He said yes and we put the ball in play after discussing with the coach. Still close, but if he "no" to my question, I might have re-jumped the ball. It was not worth a fight and not so obvious that I would give my paycheck that night to hold onto an either/or judgment.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For the record I posted this for this kind of discussion.

But since I was one of the officials on this play, I clearly saw possession by the Red player first. Part of the discussion I had with my partner was asking if he had the same thing. He did so we went with a held ball and possession to white. It was not as clear on the video as I had a clear look at the Red player and how his hands were on the ball. Actually the White player as I remember it correctly only tied the ball up after the second attempt to grab the ball. The video does not confirm that as the ball is mostly hidden from the camera angle. And most of all, it was close and why we get paid the big bucks.

Peace

I can see why you did it, even without a good angle on our end. It does appear Red secured the ball first.

Also saved you two from remembering who would've had to jump I hate rules like that which are different between the NFHS/NCAA codes. Makes me have to think out there which is a bad, bad thing.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I can see why you did it, even without a good angle on our end. It does appear Red secured the ball first.

Also saved you two from remembering who would've had to jump I hate rules like that which are different between the NFHS/NCAA codes. Makes me have to think out there which is a bad, bad thing.

Forgive me I am a little bit in football mode now when it comes to rules differences. But what rules difference applies here that is difference between NF and NCAA? Sorry I would look it up but I am preparing my football pre-game for tonight's game.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Forgive me I am a little bit in football mode now when it comes to rules differences. But what rules difference applies here that is difference between NF and NCAA? Sorry I would look it up but I am preparing my football pre-game for tonight's game.

Peace

NCAA: if there's a held ball before the arrow is established, the resulting jump ball is between any two players. NF, it would be between the two players involved in the held ball.

[OKREF]

I'm giving the ball to white and the arrow to red.