Block-Charges (video)

[Rob1968]

So, T makes the call on Video 1, involving a secondary defender, and L is motionless . . .?
Then, L makes the call on Video 2, involving a secondary defender, and T is motionless . . .?

Which is according to guidelines, at that level?

Would a dbl whistle be appropriate in either?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

So, T makes the call on Video 1, involving a secondary defender, and L is motionless . . .?
Then, L makes the call on Video 2, involving a secondary defender, and T is motionless . . .?

Which is according to guidelines, at that level?

Would a dbl whistle be appropriate in either?

I cannot speak directly for what is expected in NCAA Women's basketball as it relates to these plays. But I do feel there is nothing wrong with a double whistle and nothing wrong with one official in each situation taking this call. It is possible the L was surprised by the play and did not call anything in the first play and waited for the T to take the call. But a double whistle on both would be appropriate in most situations.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

First play: block. The defender was never in the path prior to the shooter going airborne. The shooter was coming directly at the camera and you could see her entire torso, unobstructed, until after she was airborne. Only after going airborne did the defender get in the path. Plus, the trail needs to let the lead have that one.

Second play: Charge. Contact even occurred before the shooter was airborne so it was only a matter of getting in the path with both feet down before contact. The defender got in the path got the 2nd foot down just before contact. That was the correct official to make the call and it was incredibly close so I can't fault anyone for having a different opinion on this one.

Play 1: I want to no-call this, but I'm not sure I could justify it to my superior. Block.

Play 2: First angle made me think block, second angle made me think charge. Go figure.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I cannot speak directly for what is expected in NCAA Women's basketball as it relates to these plays. But I do feel there is nothing wrong with a double whistle and nothing wrong with one official in each situation taking this call. It is possible the L was surprised by the play and did not call anything in the first play and waited for the T to take the call. But a double whistle on both would be appropriate in most situations.

Peace

So, when there is a dbl whistle on such plays, how do you sort it out? In your pre-game conference w/partners, what do you do to define your crew's method of determining who takes the call?

[johnny d]

Under the new NCAA-M guidelines, both of these plays would be blocks.

Under last years guidelines, I have charge on both.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

I have a charge on #1 & block on #2.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

So, when there is a dbl whistle on such plays, how do you sort it out? In your pre-game conference w/partners, what do you do to define your crew's method of determining who takes the call?

Under the code this game was played, primary takes precedence. I can't speak for NCAAM.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

So, when there is a dbl whistle on such plays, how do you sort it out? In your pre-game conference w/partners, what do you do to define your crew's method of determining who takes the call?

All officials do not see the same things or the entire play, so you can pre-game all you like but that is not going to stop an official that sees a foul to judge this as a foul and call it. Both of these plays IMO can have either official make these calls if they see something. If you have a double whistle, then it usually goes to the primary. Or in some cases if the person saw the beginning of the play is likely going to watch the entire play and make the right call. This is an ebb and flow situation where you have to adjust to each play.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

So, T makes the call on Video 1, involving a secondary defender, and L is motionless . . .?
Then, L makes the call on Video 2, involving a secondary defender, and T is motionless . . .?

Which is according to guidelines, at that level?

Would a dbl whistle be appropriate in either?

Under NCAAW Play #1 happened in reverse. The play starts in the L's primary - barely - but the pressure at the FT line extended means the T should keep it. It also means the L is supposed to pick up secondary defenders to deal with any RA plays. I think Jeff is right in that the L was surprised. Look at his head/eyes. When the drive begins, he's watching #11 White beat her defender. As she approaches the lane it doesn't appear as though he ever looks in front of her to pick up secondary defenders. Then as the shot goes up, he looks up at the ball. The T pretty much saved them by putting a whistle on the play even though it was really late.

On play #2 you could have a double whistle but NCAAW tends to frown on those so it's L first crack at it, T second.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

First play...the trail needs to let the lead have that one.

He did but the L didn't do anything and someone had to do something since that wasn't a no-call. That's why the whistle was so late. And no, the time lag wasn't an issue with the clip. That's how long it took for the T to blow.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The T pretty much saved them by putting a whistle on the play even though it was really late.

I don't consider it saving the crew by getting the call wrong. I don't think an official should jump in unless they have the view to get it right. He didn't.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't consider it saving the crew by getting the call wrong. I don't think an official should jump in unless they have the view to get it right. He didn't.

Cam -

I don't know if JMF used the right word in "SAVED", but I do agree that that play needed a whistle. If someone comes a second late on an obvious crash ( that we all agree is close ), I rather have a whistle, than a crash with nothing. IMO the trail has stones....I like that.

[Travelling Man]

play 1: here's a common case where a "play on" could be justified, but the fact that bodies were splayed across the floor would compel a "charge" to be called given that the defender was in LGP--at least from the T's position--though I wondered why the L did not make the call?

Play 2: I agree with the "block" call.

thanks for posting this fine vid.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

play 1: here's a common case where a "play on" could be justified

One question: How?

Originally Posted by AremRed

Play 1: I want to no-call this, but I'm not sure I could justify it to my superior. Block.

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

One question: How?

Since I said the same thing, I will defend. I saw the contact as marginal. From first glance the contact did not seem to be as much as the girls ending up on the ground made it seem. I feel once contact occurred, both players fell to the ground trying to sell the call in their favor. If this were a men's game I doubt either player would have fallen down from such contact.

As I said, I initially wanted to no-call this, but decided on block after a couple viewings. I do not see the B1 having LGP before A1 leaves the floor. B1 appears to be sliding to her right and moving slightly forward while A1 is airborne.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Because it was camp.

Why would this matter? Would officials of that caliber not want to teach me the right way to do it?

JetMetFan, would it be fair to say "don't call the iffy stuff outside your area, only make those calls which your partner will later thank you for getting"?