Block-Charges (video)

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

So, T makes the call on Video 1, involving a secondary defender, and L is motionless . . .?
Then, L makes the call on Video 2, involving a secondary defender, and T is motionless . . .?

Which is according to guidelines, at that level?

Would a dbl whistle be appropriate in either?

Under NCAAW Play #1 happened in reverse. The play starts in the L's primary - barely - but the pressure at the FT line extended means the T should keep it. It also means the L is supposed to pick up secondary defenders to deal with any RA plays. I think Jeff is right in that the L was surprised. Look at his head/eyes. When the drive begins, he's watching #11 White beat her defender. As she approaches the lane it doesn't appear as though he ever looks in front of her to pick up secondary defenders. Then as the shot goes up, he looks up at the ball. The T pretty much saved them by putting a whistle on the play even though it was really late.

On play #2 you could have a double whistle but NCAAW tends to frown on those so it's L first crack at it, T second.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

First play...the trail needs to let the lead have that one.

He did but the L didn't do anything and someone had to do something since that wasn't a no-call. That's why the whistle was so late. And no, the time lag wasn't an issue with the clip. That's how long it took for the T to blow.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The T pretty much saved them by putting a whistle on the play even though it was really late.

I don't consider it saving the crew by getting the call wrong. I don't think an official should jump in unless they have the view to get it right. He didn't.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't consider it saving the crew by getting the call wrong. I don't think an official should jump in unless they have the view to get it right. He didn't.

Cam -

I don't know if JMF used the right word in "SAVED", but I do agree that that play needed a whistle. If someone comes a second late on an obvious crash ( that we all agree is close ), I rather have a whistle, than a crash with nothing. IMO the trail has stones....I like that.

[Travelling Man]

play 1: here's a common case where a "play on" could be justified, but the fact that bodies were splayed across the floor would compel a "charge" to be called given that the defender was in LGP--at least from the T's position--though I wondered why the L did not make the call?

Play 2: I agree with the "block" call.

thanks for posting this fine vid.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

play 1: here's a common case where a "play on" could be justified

One question: How?

Originally Posted by AremRed

Play 1: I want to no-call this, but I'm not sure I could justify it to my superior. Block.

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

One question: How?

Since I said the same thing, I will defend. I saw the contact as marginal. From first glance the contact did not seem to be as much as the girls ending up on the ground made it seem. I feel once contact occurred, both players fell to the ground trying to sell the call in their favor. If this were a men's game I doubt either player would have fallen down from such contact.

As I said, I initially wanted to no-call this, but decided on block after a couple viewings. I do not see the B1 having LGP before A1 leaves the floor. B1 appears to be sliding to her right and moving slightly forward while A1 is airborne.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Because it was camp.

Why would this matter? Would officials of that caliber not want to teach me the right way to do it?

JetMetFan, would it be fair to say "don't call the iffy stuff outside your area, only make those calls which your partner will later thank you for getting"?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

SWhy would this matter? Would officials of that caliber not want to teach me the right way to do it?

Because what is taught in camp is sometimes not practiced to that extent in real life or the games these officials actually work.

Go to enough camps and watch enough clinicians, you will see this is the case in many situations.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I feel once contact occurred, both players fell to the ground trying to sell the call in their favor.

I've got a tough time with this reasoning, especially since the shooter was airborne. If you're airborne and hit an object that may/may not have been there when you left the ground, you'll most likely fall down. If the shooter lands then makes contact with the defender or if the defender was moving backwards at the time of contact, that's another story. Either way, contact doesn't have to be severe to warrant a foul call.

Originally Posted by AremRed

JetMetFan, would it be fair to say "don't call the iffy stuff outside your area, only make those calls which your partner will later thank you for getting"?

I think the fair thing to say would be give your partner a chance but ultimately make calls that need to be made. That's one thing I took from the camps I attended this summer. For me, play #1 falls into the category of a call that needed to be made.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

play 1: here's a common case where a "play on" could be justified

Out of curiosity, how long have you been officiating and at what level(s)?

[Travelling Man]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Out of curiosity, how long have you been officiating and at what level(s)?

Out of curiosity, how many officiating clinics have you had the primary responsibility of organizing and providing leadership upon? (edit) how many commendations have you been awarded for excellence in officiating?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Out of curiosity, how many officiating clinics have you had the primary responsibility of organizing and providing leadership upon? (edit) how many commendations have you been awarded for excellence in officiating?

None and none. Answering a question with a question: The sign of someone who is avoiding the initial question. Not shocking. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't believe your answer anyway. Makes no difference.

Would you mind answering why you would, in a million years, no call that first play, your excellence?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Out of curiosity, how many officiating clinics have you had the primary responsibility of organizing and providing leadership upon? (edit) how many commendations have you been awarded for excellence in officiating?

Seems to me that Smitty's question is genuine and relevant given the divergence of your opinion from the majority. Responding with non sequitur questions doesn't help, but feel free to answer your own question to Smitty if you think it will bolster your credibility or otherwise add to the discussion of the posted videos.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Out of curiosity, how many officiating clinics have you had the primary responsibility of organizing and providing leadership upon? (edit) how many commendations have you been awarded for excellence in officiating?

I will not speak for anyone else, but I have been responsible for many type clinics or was the person in charge of a session or presentation. And all I have ever noticed about previous playing experience is it helps an official with strategy and understanding what is going on from a team aspect, but not necessarily their rules or mechanics knowledge.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't consider it saving the crew by getting the call wrong. I don't think an official should jump in unless they have the view to get it right. He didn't.

It's saving the crew because something had to be called and I can't say one way or another whether he missed it. Neither can the population at-large, apparently, since there are differing opinions in the thread.

As for having a good look at it, on the end zone replay it shows the T stepped down below the 28-foot line before making the call. He didn't jump in. He followed the play, waited then reacted. If you want to take someone to task, I think it would be the L.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

It's saving the crew because something had to be called and I can't say one way or another whether he missed it. Neither can the population at-large, apparently, since there are differing opinions in the thread.

I really don't see how, using the replay, anyone can come to any conclusion other than a block. There is one angle gives such a good view that it no longer involves judgement. From the replay showing the shooter coming straight at the camera, it is very clear that there was nothing in her path at the time she went airborne. Once you see that, it is merely a matter of rule. It can only be a block if the shooter is airborne before anyone is in their path.

At live speed from the positions of the officials or from several camera angles, it can look like a charge and I can how they might think it was a charge but that doesn't make it the right call when there is one angle which clearly shows it is not.