Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game ...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Man. You are one persistent son of a gun. You stick to your guns. You're a pain in the butt, but, good for you. I often wish that I had your confidence. You're still wrong, but you're persistent, and confident. Again, good for you.

It is not about sticking to my guns, I just do not agree with you. You have not said anything that anyone has stated that is in charge or over an organization that I am apart of in any capacity. If you do not want to stay "Don't move" that is fine with me. But you are not in a position to tell me or others what they should or should not say, when it really does not have connotation that you have assumed it does with everyone. I have similar pet peeves but I know they are my pet peeves, not speaking for what others should do. Just like you wearing a belt, it is up to you to decide if that is what you want to do when others thinks it looks silly. And trust me, there are more people that do not want to wear a belt then are upset about this terminology that you seem to be upset or irritated by. I think I have a right to my opinion, it is not about right or wrong.

Peace

[Travelling Man]

Add to your list:
1. Refs don't need to "remind" a coach that they have been issued a 1st warning prior to giving them a second technical foul and subsequent ejection.

2. When a coach asks "how many timeouts do I have?" We refs have no business informing them; that's the responsibility of their ass't coach or score table personnel.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Add to your list:
1. Refs don't need to "remind" a coach that they have been issued a 1st warning prior to giving them a second technical foul and subsequent ejection.

2. When a coach asks "how many timeouts do I have?" We refs have no business informing them; that's the responsibility of their ass't coach or score table personnel.

To your first point. We don't have to give them a warning anyway. Reminding them of their warning is just giving them another warning, and that's just from the UN school of game management.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

When a coach asks "how many timeouts do I have?" We refs have no business informing them; that's the responsibility of their ass't coach or score table personnel.

"Coach, you have one timeout left"? We've debated that here on the Forum in the past. I will consider it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"Coach, you have one timeout left"? We've debated that here on the Forum in the past. I will consider it.

I don't offer it, but if asked I will answer.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"Coach, you have one timeout left"? We've debated that here on the Forum in the past. I will consider it.

NFHS Rules 2-7-11 Officials' General Duties . . . Notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final allowable time-out.
Some supervisors would rather that we notify the head coach when a team has one time-out left.
"When in Rome . . ."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Some supervisors would rather that we notify the head coach when a team has one time-out left.
"When in Rome . . ."

Agree. All our supervisors, assigners, commissioners, etc., live in some kind of "Rome", so we do what they expect us to do, otherwise, we won't be working, and whether, or not, we tell coaches that they have one timeout left becomes moot, because we're not working.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You have not said anything that anyone has stated that is in charge or over an organization that I am apart of in any capacity. If you do not want to stay "Don't move" that is fine with me. But you are not in a position to tell me or others what they should or should not say, when it really does not have connotation that you have assumed it does with everyone.

Read my thread starter. I'm writing an article for my local board newsletter, which I hope may become part of my local board's training program. All I asked for was for additional items on the list, i.e., "On the floor". That's all I asked for, nothing more. Some wanted to debate certain items. I'm always up for a good debate.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You seem to be upset or irritated by. I think I have a right to my opinion, it is not about right or wrong.

I am neither upset, nor am I irritated. You are entitled to an opinion, but I'm dealing with factual rules here, not opinions. "Don't move" is a factually wrong as telling players to, "Stand behind the division line", during a free throw for a technical foul free throw. It's wrong, and it's wrong.

You can certainly have a valid opinion that it alright to say "Don't move", that it really doesn't effect the outcome of the situation, or the game (although I have given one example of a technical foul charged to a coach because he thought a player "couldn't move", but lets just call that anecdotal evidence, and forget about it). That's an opinion that's alright to have.

But you cannot argue that, "Don't move", is factually correct. That's not an opinion, that's facts, or the lack of such. You are certainly welcome to have an opinion that two plus two equals five, but it's still factually untrue. You can have an opinion that BillyMac lacks math skills and believes that two plus two equals five, and that may certainly be 100% true, but that doesn't mean that two plus two equals five.

Maybe it doesn't belong on the list. Maybe it's wrong to avoid saying it. All valid, and possibly true, opinions. But it still doesn't match the written, and interpreted rules. That's a fact, Jack.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I am neither upset, nor am I irritated. You are entitled to an opinion, but I'm dealing with factual rules here, not opinions. "Don't move" is a factually wrong as telling players to, "Stand behind the division line", during a free throw for a technical foul free throw. It's wrong, and it's wrong.

You can certainly have a valid opinion that it alright to say "Don't move", that it really doesn't effect the outcome of the situation, or the game (although I have given one example of a technical foul charged to a coach because he thought a player "couldn't move", but lets just call that anecdotal evidence, and forget about it). That's an opinion that's alright to have.

But you cannot argue that, "Don't move", is factually correct. That's not an opinion, that's facts, or the lack of such. You are certainly welcome to have an opinion that two plus two equals five, but it's still factually untrue. You can have an opinion that BillyMac lacks math skills and believes that two plus two equals five, and that may certainly be 100% true, but that doesn't mean that two plus two equals five.

Maybe it doesn't belong on the list. Maybe it's wrong to avoid saying it. All valid, and possibly true, opinions. But it still doesn't match the written, and interpreted rules. That's a fact, Jack.

You miss the overall point (once again). We have to communicate many things quickly and precisely and do so using terminology players and coaches would understand. If we don't then we will confuse the people we are talking to. They are not looking to us for a rules clinic or a complete explaination of what the rule is on a throw-in or other things. You used the example of telling players to go to half court, but I have never told any player to go to half court but that is where they tend to end up. I know I tell them usually to just vacate the lane nad where they go after that is their business. This is usually an either/or answer or a statement to convey which kind of throw-in is taking place. And after timeouts it is very common to have a player that is about to throw-in the ball ask, "Can I move?" They are not asking what they can do in a designated spot and likely have never heard the term "designated spot." And I did not say you should or should not say this as well. And I am taking issue with your take on this not because of right and wrong, but why does it matter? It does not matter as no one is that intune to what we are saying that they think, "Well that means I cannot move." Do they think they cannot move their arms or head or the ball because we say, "Don't move" on a throw-in? Funny, I have never had a player feel restricted in what they do. If they do not know what the rule is or their coach has not told them what they cannot do like other aspects of the game, that is not my fault or my responsiblity to teach it to them. And I cannot remember the last time I have ever called a violation or seen a player "not move" to the point they are stagnant or act like if they breathe they will violate some rule. And if I find it necessary, I am still going to say it when approrpirate despite what you suggest Billy. No one in my officiating life has told me or anyone to stop using or not to say this in any way. And I have been to many camps and trainings where this could be discussed or I have been observed as well as others that have said similar things.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You miss the overall point (once again). We have to communicate many things quickly and precisely and do so using terminology players and coaches would understand. If we don't then we will confuse the people we are talking to. They are not looking to us for a rules clinic or a complete explaination of what the rule is on a throw-in or other things.
Peace

Actually, Billy is spot on this time.

It should be our goal to use accurate and brief communications that convey the meaning without implying things that are not true. You may have found a short phrase that is quick and gets your desired results but it over states the requirement. Such things are the genesis of myths and misconceptions. No one says you need to give a complete explanation of the rule is but you shouldn't be stating it in a way that is wrong.

I've T'd a coach over an opponent who "moved" on a spot throw in because he was sure they couldn't "move". Where did he get that idea? From officials who tell the players and coaches "don't move". By saying "don't move" you have confused them, not informed them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Actually, Billy is spot on this time.

It should be our goal to use accurate and brief communications that convey the meaning without implying things that are not true. You may have found a short phrase that is quick and gets your desired results but it over states the requirement. Such things are the genesis of myths and misconceptions. No one says you need to give a complete explanation of the rule is but you shouldn't be stating it in a way that is wrong.

I've T'd a coach over an opponent who "moved" on a spot throw in because he was sure they couldn't "move". Where did he get that idea? From officials who tell the players and coaches "don't move". By saying "don't move" you have confused them, not informed them.

I have never T'd a coach over this issue and honestly have not been the administrating official and they think the player had a pivot foot and moved that "pivot foot" or what they thought was a pivot foot.

What have you misinformed them about?

Actually years ago I had to T a coach because he felt after a made basket (FT) that I should as the official go to the other side of the court and hand the thrower the ball. Not only would that have been against our state's mechanic to not bounce the ball across the lane, but it would have confused the hell out of my partners and wondering why C could now have to go to L and the L would have to go to C. The coach was convinced that his ability to throw the ball in had something to do with where I gave his player the ball and acted out and got a T. And I told his player, "You can run over there if you like."

Again you are entilted to your opinion, but when someone that I work for or with complains about such communication it will certainly be the first. Until I read this thread I would not have known anyone cared that much.

Peace

[johnny d]

I have to agree with JRut on this one. In the middle of a game it isn't my responsibility to conduct a rules clinic for the players and coaches. I use spot throw-in rather than don't move. If the player and or coach, because of their lack of rule knowledge, takes that to mean they cannot move that is their problem, not mine. They will figure it out eventually or continue to put themselves at a disadvantage. As far as perpetuating myths and misconceptions, the horse is already out of the barn. Fans, players, and coaches have already been influenced by their exposure to these and their stance on the rules or plays in question isn't going to change until they actually read the rule book. Since we all know that is going to happen, worrying about the myths and misconceptions these people hold is a complete waste of time and energy.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Since we all know that is going to happen, worrying about the myths and misconceptions these people hold is a complete waste of time and energy.

Absolutely.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I have to agree with JRut on this one. In the middle of a game it isn't my responsibility to conduct a rules clinic for the players and coaches. I use spot throw-in rather than don't move. If the player and or coach, because of their lack of rule knowledge, takes that to mean they cannot move that is their problem, not mine. They will figure it out eventually or continue to put themselves at a disadvantage. As far as perpetuating myths and misconceptions, the horse is already out of the barn. Fans, players, and coaches have already been influenced by their exposure to these and their stance on the rules or plays in question isn't going to change until they actually read the rule book. Since we all know that is going to happen, worrying about the myths and misconceptions these people hold is a complete waste of time and energy.

Difference is, you're not saying "don't move."

I say, "this is your spot."