Gonzaga / Southern video (Added)

[zebraman]

If the lead would have started with a single fist foul signal before he started to signal a block, this thread wouldn't exist. :-) Good fundamentals can even save the big dogs.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by cmb

I can't believe anyone could seriously think the L didn't give a signal. He blows his whistle and is sliding/hopping to his side while holding two fists high in the air. Let's not kid anyone here. That's enough for everyone to know he's calling a block.

It is? Well I can tell you I used to raise my arms to give ultimately at PC foul signal. I used wave off the basket and it was often assumed by people watching that I was giving a "block" call at first. And it does ot matter what we "think" he was going to do, he did not ultimately signal anything and tha is all that matters despite what you say. Not every official runs out and gives a PC signal. Many different ways officials do things or the style they use.

Originally Posted by cmb

Question for those trying to tell us the L didn't actually signal: in your opinion, at what point is the block signal actually made? Is it once the fists start to come down? When they actually hit the hips? Somewhere in between??

I agree with Camron. The signal was received, which means it was sent.

Isn't a block signal include putting your hands on your hips at some point? I do not see any block signal in any book that shows your hands raised. Not sure it is that complicated as you seem to be making it, where you agree with Camron or not.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well he did not actually signal anything. It might have been obvious what he was going to signal by his body language, but for all of our purposes, he never signaled. He was stopped from signaling by his partner.

Peace

Originally Posted by Nikki

+100

There was no preliminary signal made by either official. No matter what anyone thinks about the L going up with both hands - he had not yet made the signal for a block, no matter what he was GOING TO do.

He gave a motion that indicated what he was calling. Not showing is putting up a single fist indicating only foul and giving NO visual cues to which way you're going. That official skipped that and went straight to the block signal. What he did was the first part of a block and everyone knows it.

Anyone that thinks that official was doing anything other than calling a block and that his motions were anything other than part of the block signal is delusional. You're letting your desire to not have a blarge cloud what is obvious.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Isn't a block signal include putting your hands on your hips at some point? I do not see any block signal in any book that shows your hands raised. Not sure it is that complicated as you seem to be making it, where you agree with Camron or not.

Peace

So they have to get all the way to the hips? If he stops 1" from his hips and does it 3-4 times, it isn't a block? Yeah, right. :/

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

So they have to get all the way to the hips? If he stops 1" from his hips and does it 3-4 times, it isn't a block? Yeah, right. :/

If you want to be that technical the only signal he gave was a 3 point signal.

Now unless you are an NCAA Rules Editor or coordinator, then honestly what you or I think he means little. You can argue all you want, but there is not a signal that clearly shows a block. He puts his arms up but that is interpreted many ways. And guess what happened? They went with a PC foul. And unless you are on the NF committee or someone that evaluates officials across the country and has say, I would take the same position on this play. I do not like the fact a partner had to wave off the other before a signal, but there was no signal.

Peace

[canuckrefguy]

C'mon Rut. Any person who watches basketball, whether an official or not, knows the Lead was about to call a block.

I like the Trail calling him off and doing a solid sell to avoid the blarge.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you want to be that technical the only ...
Peace

Wow. You are really stretching it.. you should quit trying to argue against the obvious

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Wow. You are really stretching it.. you should quit trying to argue against the obvious

Obvious? Again Camron, we deal in definitions. There is no definitions that says a signal is made just because it looks like it is going to be a certain signal. And you are not in a position to say either way. All you are saying is your opinion and considering that many here do not always agree with your opinion, then it is nice you gave one, but not official. I am sure the officials in this game or their evaluator is not like, "You know that guy Camron on that website made some sense." I doubt anyone really even knows you or I have had this conversations and couldn't care less what we think either.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

C'mon Rut. Any person who watches basketball, whether an official or not, knows the Lead was about to call a block.

I like the Trail calling him off and doing a solid sell to avoid the blarge.

Did the Lead not blow his whistle? I think he knows he had something. He was telling him "I got this." Not sure who you work with, but I tend to know a lot of the time when my partner has a whistle and know when I am coming in hard to sell the call. It is not even a situation about a block-charge, it could be some other contact before the Lead would have something. Let us not make this so complicated. But we always seem to on this site.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Over thirty years I wish I had a dime for every time that I made a last split second decision and either changed my open hand to a fist, or my fist to an open hand. I hope that it's how we "finish" our signal, not how we start our signal. But that's just my opinion and it does not necessarily represent the views of my local board, its affiliates, employees, sponsors, the local station, etc.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Over thirty years I wish I had a dime for every time that I made a last split second decision and either changed an open hand to a fist, or a fist to an open hand. I hope that it's how we "finish" our signal, not how we start our signal. But that's just my opinion and it does not necessarily represent the views of my local board, its affiliates, employees, sponsors, the local station, etc.

And if we go by what it "started to look like" then we should have been having this debate a long time ago. I do not know how many videos we had where an official looks like they are going to call something that is contradictory to what was actually called. Funny never heard this argument before.

Peace

[just another ref]

Can anyone reveal the exact wording of the memo regarding this matter?

If two complete opposing preliminary signals are given, both fouls must be reported.


"Nice job holding up at the last possible instant, guy."


or

If an official has committed to make a certain signal and this is obvious to everyone involved, he is obligated to follow through and make the call. The call of one official taking precedence over another must be avoided at all cost, no matter how stupid it may look.

(surely not)

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Over thirty years I wish I had a dime for every time that I made a last split second decision and either changed an open hand to a fist, or a fist to an open hand. I hope that it's how we "finish" our signal, not how we start our signal. But that's just my opinion and it does not necessarily represent the views of my local board, its affiliates, employees, sponsors, the local station, etc.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

If they signal improperly, you hit them with a hammer?

rough neighborhood

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you want to be that technical the only signal he gave was a 3 point signal.

Now unless you are an NCAA Rules Editor or coordinator, then honestly what you or I think he means little. You can argue all you want, but there is not a signal that clearly shows a block. He puts his arms up but that is interpreted many ways. And guess what happened? They went with a PC foul. And unless you are on the NF committee or someone that evaluates officials across the country and has say, I would take the same position on this play. I do not like the fact a partner had to wave off the other before a signal, but there was no signal.

Peace

If there was no signal by the L then what exactly was his partner waving off? maybe his partner was just really happy to see the L and was waving HI with both hands? I mean I've done that before at parties and reunions.
Doesn't WBB still have the 'get together and get it right' instead of blare mentality?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Judtech

If there was no signal by the L then what exactly was his partner waving off? maybe his partner was just really happy to see the L and was waving HI with both hands? I mean I've done that before at parties and reunions.
Doesn't WBB still have the 'get together and get it right' instead of blare mentality?

Actually he did not wave him off, he put his arms up to say, "Stop" or "I got this." And if you have never seen an official do this in a game, well not sure what you have seen over the years. I have seen officials do something like this or tap their chest or point to their partner when there clearly was a double or multiple whistle play. Better yet, what did they talk about in the locker room after this play and I wonder what was talked about before these games. Many of these guys have never worked together or do not work in the same conferences.

Peace