Gonzaga / Southern video (Added)

[ILRef80]

Any video of this? I saw it live and was shocked to see the T wave the L off. I'd like to get another look.

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

At least the Trail, who "stole" this call from Lead, got it right: Player Control foul!

A possession or three before, a block was called against Olynyk that could have easily been a charge. The lead (who had his call stolen if you will) was the same official who called the block against Olynyk. He may have wanted to call a block for the sake of consistency.

[packersowner]

Olynk started at about the 3 point line, I would not say this was the Leads responsibility at this point - he then drove left into the paint, near the 3 point line. L had the best look at seeing the defender slide into position. I think the defender got there late. From the positions on the court, it was in L's PCA, but it started in the T's PCA, so he went with it.

I think it was the wrong call, but called by the right official.

[APG]

[icallfouls]

Regardless, I like that they did not go BLARGE and have that stoopid double foul.
I hate that the NCAA says we have to have a block and charge.

The directive is that the L has secondary defenders, I really dont see a block on this play and not sure how the L came to that conclusion. Torso-to-torso, to and through.

[Camron Rust]

The lead clearly displayed enough that anyone in the gym knew he had a block. By rule (like it or not) that should have been a double foul.

That said, the trail got it right.

But what if the lead was the one who was right? Is getting it completely backwards better than the double foul?

[icallfouls]

Please cite your rules reference.

It is not a double until both officials signal the nature of the call. Once both officials have signaled completely different calls, then they must have the double. Yes, everyone in the gym knew what he was likely to call.

However, I will say that I remember a game where I came up with two hands and actually correctly called a PC. So it is possible, though remote, he was about to signal charge.

The crew narrowly averted the BLarge because the L did not signal.

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Why would the lead defer to the trail here?

Trail has primary on drives initiated in his area. But I'd like to think Lead is just a great guy with no ego focused on getting the call right. I hope this is true.

[icallfouls]

Lead has responsibility for secondary defenders and plays in the lane. check, check.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Jay R

A possession or three before, a block was called against Olynyk that could have easily been a charge. The lead (who had his call stolen if you will) was the same official who called the block against Olynyk. He may have wanted to call a block for the sake of consistency.

The earlier block call was easy...no LGP until after the player left the floor.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

...
The directive is that the L has secondary defenders, I really dont see a block on this play and not sure how the L came to that conclusion. Torso-to-torso, to and through.

Agree. B2 arrived at the spot before A1 did and A1 was not airborne. So B2 met his obligations.

And the trail communicated the way he did because he didn't want the Lead to finish his Block mechanic. I have no problem with what he did.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Please cite your rules reference.

You know where it is.

Once the official has signaled a call, he's made that call. Given that no official may overrule another, when another official makes a different call, to change it is considered to be an overrule. They're stuck with both calls. The rules resolution of that is a double foul.

Sure, his signal wasn't" complete" but it was sufficient to know what it was. Once that is done where he has made his call known, in the case of a conflicting double whistle, there is no going back...by rule. That is the only reason that rule exists....to avoid the appearance of one overruling another.

And some will try to slice it by saying it should belong to the primary but I can always create a play where the primary is also ambiguous....so that still doesn't resolve it....and it is just as likely to lead to the wrong call as it would lead to the right call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Agree. B2 arrived at the spot before A1 did and A1 was not airborne. So B2 met his obligations.

And the trail communicated the way he did because he didn't want the Lead to finish his Block mechanic. I have no problem with what he did.

If the trail knew what the lead's signal was, then it was done. He overruled his partner. He may have got the right call, but he did so by breaking another rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

He overruled his partner. He may have got the right call, but he did so by breaking another rule.

Don't two wrongs make a right? Wait? I'm now being told that that's only in horseshoes, and hand grenades. Never mind.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You know where it is.

Once the official has signaled a call, he's made that call. Given that no official may overrule another, when another official makes a different call, to change it is considered to be an overrule. They're stuck with both calls. The rules resolution of that is a double foul.

Sure, his signal wasn't" complete" but it was sufficient to know what it was. Once that is done where he has made his call known, in the case of a conflicting double whistle, there is no going back...by rule. That is the only reason that rule exists....to avoid the appearance of one overruling another.

And some will try to slice it by saying it should belong to the primary but I can always create a play where the primary is also ambiguous....so that still doesn't resolve it....and it is just as likely to lead to the wrong call as it would lead to the right call.

Just playing to the other side of the argument.

Citation please. It is a double whistle. The T communicated to the L to hold his preliminary, then took the call himself.

He did not signal anything other than two hands in the air, which could have been a held ball for that matter.