"Continuous" issues...

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Gathering doesn't exist in NFHS. The rule is have they started their habitual shooting motion. During play 3, the foul happens and then the shooting motion begins. They offensive player did not start their shooting motion prior to the foul. In my opinion.

Fair enough. Now here's my question: What's the habitual shooting motion prior to taking a runner/floater in the lane?

[APG]

Would y'all consider this in the act of shooting? (For the record, I believe this is easily in the act):

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by APG

Would y'all consider this in the act of shooting? (For the record, I believe this is easily in the act):

Yes. This is a shooting foul at all levels: NBA, NCAA, NFHS.

[APG]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

Yes. This is a shooting foul at all levels: NBA, NCAA, NFHS.

I agree...I guess it was more directed toward those that thought play 3 was close.

For the record, the officials in the clip didn't rule this in the act.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by APG

I honestly don't see how anyone can have play 3 anything other than a shooting foul.

My thoughts exactly when reading through this thread. All 5 plays are not close IMO.

And play #3 is so clearly a shooting foul in my book that I'm shocked to see people sayings its even remotely close.

As for the talk of a patient whistle on #4 I think thats a misapplication of the philosophy. If you are going to be patient then don't penalize the offense by then deciding to put air in it once they are in their shooting motion.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't see why officials look for reasons to judge a foul as non-shooting. And it seems they always make a big production of it when selling the call. They have to sell the call so hard b/c they are trying to convince everyone.

As officials we need to pay attention to what's going on in the game. If it's the 4th quarter and the guy who has put up 25 shots already is going to the hole and gets bumped after gathering his dribble do we really think he was intending on passing the ball?

The "on the floor" officials treat the play as if it were the best call of the game.

+1

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

1, 2, 4, and 5 are certainly shooting fouls. 3 probably is but is the only one that may not have been at the time of the actual foul....too close to say on that one.

Originally Posted by APG

I agree...I guess it was more directed toward those that thought play 3 was close.

For the record, the officials in the clip didn't rule this in the act.

Go back and look at what I said on page 1, post 7. I said that i probably is a shooting foul.

I'm just disputing the terminology and justification some are using to say it is. Those elements (gather) do not automatically mean shot when there are other options in the area. It might mean shot, but a pass or nothing is still a possibility.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Go back and look at what I said on page 1, post 7. I said that i probably is a shooting foul.

I'm just disputing the terminology and justification some are using to say it is. Those elements (gather) do not automatically mean shot when there are other options in the area. It might mean shot, but a pass or nothing is still a possibility.

And my post is surprise that it's close for some...that play isn't "probably" a shooting foul IMO...it's clearly and obviously during the act of shooting IMO.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by APG

And my post is surprise that it's close for some...that play isn't "probably" a shooting foul IMO...it's clearly and obviously during the act of shooting IMO.

Guess what.. I just went back and watch it again. I agree.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Fair enough. Now here's my question: What's the habitual shooting motion prior to taking a runner/floater in the lane?

Exactly. If gathering the ball and starting your layup motion isn't part of the habitual shooting motion I don't know what is. "Habitual"=habit=what you always do; that is the motion that you do when you perform a layup/runner, therefore it is part of your habitual shooting motion.

The tough one is when the foul occurs on the rebound and the offensive rebounder takes the ball strait back up and scores. I've learned the hard way to have a patient whistle on that one. I hate having to reward the D by wipeing an easy bucket for the O and making them take it out of bounds. But I can't count the bucket and give them one because they weren't fouled on the shot.