Post pushing (video)

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Right hand around the waist, left arm over the shoulder, and defender pulls the offensive player backward. That's the one that needs to be gotten. None of the rest of that garbage happens then.

Missed my point - right hand around the waist? Was that because the defender was backing into him? There is no way on the video to tell if that is where contact happened by the defender. Left arm over the shoulder? When the player moves from the offensive players right side to the left side, the defensive player reaches over the top of the offensive players left arm, this is not illegal. What's illegal is when the offensive player starts to reach to hold the defensive player and the defensive player than grabs and the pulls the offensive player.

I think the problem is that every official is always told "get the first foul, get the first foul" so now you are looking at trying to find that first foul at the earliest point. If each player had backed away after the 13 second mark, we would all say, "I am not calling that one" but since you obviously have something later on, you're trying to back up and find the first one.

[JRutledge]

Team control foul on the offensive post player. Never understand why we allow the offensive player to get away with murder and we penalize the defender when it gets rough.

Peace

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Team control foul on the offensive post player. Never understand why we allow the offensive player to get away with murder and we penalize the defender when it gets rough.

Peace

I have to agree. We have to know who is initiating contact. When the defender switches to guard the post player, the offense creates contact by backing the defense into the lane. The defense tries to resist and is able to hold their position. The defender then tries to re-position to the high side and the offense again displaces the defender up to the FT line. The defender then tries to establish position on the low side and is displaced again. The defender is forced to hold as a result of displacement in the last two situations.

On this play, know who is initiating contact.

The L needed to be on this side of the floor to see this play.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by APG

Hold on the defender...but I' could buy a hold on the offensive player if I saw the play from another angle...as long as one doesn't cop out to calling a double foul.

Uh, this post is kind of a cop out isn't it?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Team control foul on the offensive post player. Never understand why we allow the offensive player to get away with murder and we penalize the defender when it gets rough.

Peace

+1

[APG]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Uh, this post is kind of a cop out isn't it?



+1

How so?

I've already said that I have a hold on the defender. But as you know, this thing of ours is all about getting angles...I'm just acknowledging that given a different angle, I may just very well change my opinion. No different from when one sees a block/charge play where we get the center/slot's angle and it looks like a charge...yet get a better angle from the baseline and are able to pick up on late lateral movement from a defender making it a block.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by packersowner

Missed my point - right hand around the waist? Was that because the defender was backing into him? There is no way on the video to tell if that is where contact happened by the defender. Left arm over the shoulder? When the player moves from the offensive players right side to the left side, the defensive player reaches over the top of the offensive players left arm, this is not illegal. What's illegal is when the offensive player starts to reach to hold the defensive player and the defensive player than grabs and the pulls the offensive player.

I think the problem is that every official is always told "get the first foul, get the first foul" so now you are looking at trying to find that first foul at the earliest point. If each player had backed away after the 13 second mark, we would all say, "I am not calling that one" but since you obviously have something later on, you're trying to back up and find the first one.

Yes except this first foul was an obvious grab of the waist to re-align the offensive player. It all goes down hill from there.

Originally Posted by jrutledge

Team control foul on the offensive post player. Never understand why we allow the offensive player to get away with murder and we penalize the defender when it gets rough.

If the offensive player was the first to commit a foul I agree but this starts with the defense grabbing the offensive player.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

Yes except this first foul was an obvious grab of the waist to re-align the offensive player. It all goes down hill from there.



If the offensive player was the first to commit a foul I agree but this starts with the defense grabbing the offensive player.

It looks to me the offensive player clearly backs out the defender and then the defender tries to get around and then he is held by swinging arm to prevent him from getting around. Grabbing the arm is a reaction to the first action.

Peace

[deecee]

I think the defender grabbing the waist and turning him at 13/14 seconds starts the whole thing.