Pushing

greymule · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 08:54am

Haven't seen this play too much over the years, but it happened Saturday, and I'm wondering whether I should have called anything.

This one unfolded as follows:

Abel on 2B. Baker grounds to F6, who throws to 1B to get Baker. Abel takes 3B on the throw and rounds the bag by three or four steps. F3 throws back to 3B in an attempt to get Abel. F5, standing a full step off the home side of 3B without the ball, is clearly obstructing as Abel scrambles back to 3B.

Now: Abel with both arms pushes the much bigger F5, who is thrown off balance as the throw skips through to the fence and Abel scores.

My question is whether I should have called anything for Abel pushing F5.

If it matters, when Abel reversed direction, F5 was right in his way. Abel really had no chance to try to run around F5.

TexBlue · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 09:51am

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
If it matters, when Abel reversed direction, F5 was right in his way. Abel really had no chance to try to run around F5.

A true HTBT. You had him protected on the OBS, if the collision was a train wreck, no problem. If the push was malicious or just arbitrary, an "in your face" shove, lose the runner, after you call a dead ball and call him out. Sometimes, the arms come up for protection, but if the push, shove, whatever was aggressive, make the call and lose the player.

blue · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 09:57am

I believe you have a case of obstruction until the runner pushed F5. After the push, you have interference on Abel. ASA POE #35 "If the runner committed an act of interference after the obstruction, this would too overrule the obstruction."
ASA Rule 8-5B..../.Should any act of interference occur following any obstruction, enforcement of the interfenrnce penalty would have precedence.

Without being there to actually see it, I think Abel is out.

IRISHMAFIA · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 12:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by blue
I believe you have a case of obstruction until the runner pushed F5. After the push, you have interference on Abel. ASA POE #35 "If the runner committed an act of interference after the obstruction, this would too overrule the obstruction."
ASA Rule 8-5B..../.Should any act of interference occur following any obstruction, enforcement of the interfenrnce penalty would have precedence.

Without being there to actually see it, I think Abel is out.

How did R1 interfere with F5? It certainly isn't interference by definition in 8.7.J.

MDblue · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 04:24pm

I would have to agree with the obstruction call on F5, however when the runner prevented the fielder from any attempt to field the ball -- which went to the fence -- you now have an interference call with the runner out.

IRISHMAFIA · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 17, 2004, 05:31pm

Quote:

Originally posted by MDblue
I would have to agree with the obstruction call on F5, however when the runner prevented the fielder from any attempt to field the ball -- which went to the fence -- you now have an interference call with the runner out.

Speaking ASA

Still waiting for someone to tell me what rule would be enforced for interference.

If the umpire judges it was with the intention of preventing the fielder to partake in the game by knocking them to the ground, now you have a crash which would be USC. Same affect, but if you are not prepared to eject the runner, you have nothing to call.

greymule · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 18, 2004, 09:16am

This push was not a dirty play. It was clear to me that it was an attempt by the runner to clear the obstacle (F5) that was preventing him from getting back to 3B. It was not a push to interfere or to punish.

The other type of push I've seen is in FP, where the runner on 2B is stealing third and F6 is late on the shift to cover, running to 3B in front of the runner. I've called nothing when the runner pushes the obstructing F6.

I agree that you HTBT on many of these.

greymule · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 31, 2004, 01:35pm

So is it fair to say that pushing an obstructing fielder out of the way is legal as long as we do not judge the push to be violent or unsportsmanlike?

And what if the push prevents the obstructing fielder from catching the throw?

WestMichBlue · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 31, 2004, 03:18pm

"So is it fair to say that pushing an obstructing fielder out of the way is legal as long as we do not judge the push to be violent or unsportsmanlike?"

NFHS would say yes.

From casebook 8.4.3 Situation D: "F2, without the ball and with no chance to catch the ball, is blocking home plate. R1 pushes F2, but not flagrantly, out of the base path and touches home. RULING: The umpire would call obstruction and signal a delayed dead ball. Since the runner reached home safely there would be no award given."

WMB

IRISHMAFIA · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 31, 2004, 07:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
So is it fair to say that pushing an obstructing fielder out of the way is legal as long as we do not judge the push to be violent or unsportsmanlike?

And what if the push prevents the obstructing fielder from catching the throw?

If it was under the premise of the previous sentence, the fielder is SOL.