Post pushing (video)

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

First foul on defense is at about 13 sec. No way is this double, and no way is it on the offense.

I understand where someone can see a hold at the :13 sec mark but I am not sure how you can call a foul here when the offense is backing the defense down. Sure we can all see the right hand around the offense, but thats a tough call to make.

The next series is where I believe the real call needs to happen.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by packersowner

I understand where someone can see a hold at the :13 sec mark but I am not sure how you can call a foul here when the offense is backing the defense down. Sure we can all see the right hand around the offense, but thats a tough call to make.

The next series is where I believe the real call needs to happen.

That's too late, IMO.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by packersowner

I understand where someone can see a hold at the :13 sec mark but I am not sure how you can call a foul here when the offense is backing the defense down. Sure we can all see the right hand around the offense, but thats a tough call to make.

The next series is where I believe the real call needs to happen.

Right hand around the waist, left arm over the shoulder, and defender pulls the offensive player backward. That's the one that needs to be gotten. None of the rest of that garbage happens then.

[OKREF]

I have that on the defense. Holding several times.

[Blindolbat]

My question is what took the lead so long to make the call? It seems like the trail whose primary responsibility was ball here actually made the call.

[twocentsworth]

at least they called 1 of the 3 fouls that I saw......

[deecee]

I've got a foul on the post defender at 13/14 seconds. You call that nothing else happens. Get the first one.

[srp6977]

Who is displacing who? The offense is continually pushing the defender where ever he wants to and early on has him wrapped up.

If the defensive player was pushing/displacing that offensive player like that it would be called a foul instantly by most. But for some reason the offensive player is basically displacing the defender all over the floor and nothing is called.

My opinion, get that hook and displacement by the offense early in the play.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by APG

How so?

I've already said that I have a hold on the defender. But as you know, this thing of ours is all about getting angles...I'm just acknowledging that given a different angle, I may just very well change my opinion. No different from when one sees a block/charge play where we get the center/slot's angle and it looks like a charge...yet get a better angle from the baseline and are able to pick up on late lateral movement from a defender making it a block.

Hold on the defender...but I' could buy a hold on the offensive player if I saw the play from another angle...as long as one doesn't cop out to calling a double foul.

You are right either way the discussion goes. Defense = "that is what I said", Offense = "I said I could buy that" I guess our videos are of different angles because the video I'm looking at clearly has the offensive player displacing the defender and then using his left arm to keep the defender from getting into a 3/4 post defense position. That is the first action that I see could be called a foul.

We don't really know what had happened in this game so far, but if that post player is a legit player on the block the Lead should get into a position to see that play. If I'm not mistaken this is a two-man game and the Trail is looking at the on-ball matchup right?

Originally Posted by srp6977

Who is displacing who? The offense is continually pushing the defender where ever he wants to and early on has him wrapped up.

If the defensive player was pushing/displacing that offensive player like that it would be called a foul instantly by most. But for some reason the offensive player is basically displacing the defender all over the floor and nothing is called.

My opinion, get that hook and displacement by the offense early in the play.

another +1

I have a question for those that would go with a defensive foul. If the post player received the ball - a pass to his right hand, as he is holding off the defender with his left hand, do you think that would be an advantage?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Hold on the defender...but I' could buy a hold on the offensive player if I saw the play from another angle...as long as one doesn't cop out to calling a double foul.

You are right either way the discussion goes. Defense = "that is what I said", Offense = "I said I could buy that" I guess our videos are of different angles because the video I'm looking at clearly has the offensive player displacing the defender and then using his left arm to keep the defender from getting into a 3/4 post defense position. That is the first action that I see could be called a foul.

...

No, I think he's saying a cop out would be going with a double foul. He's not trying to be right, just saying there needs to be a whistle and the whistle should be for whatever action the Lead saw first instead letting the hand-fighting go on for 10 seconds.

[APG]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Hold on the defender...but I' could buy a hold on the offensive player if I saw the play from another angle...as long as one doesn't cop out to calling a double foul.

You are right either way the discussion goes. Defense = "that is what I said", Offense = "I said I could buy that" I guess our videos are of different angles because the video I'm looking at clearly has the offensive player displacing the defender and then using his left arm to keep the defender from getting into a 3/4 post defense position. That is the first action that I see could be called a foul.

I guess you just interpreted my post differently. This play has already been discussed in a Facebook group which had some members advocating a double foul. My cop out statement was more to say call the first illegal contact in one's judgement.

And FYI, if my assignor said straight up he had a hold on the defender, I wouldn't try to rationalize an answer choice. I'd own up to having a foul on the defender and be being wrong.

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Right hand around the waist, left arm over the shoulder, and defender pulls the offensive player backward. That's the one that needs to be gotten. None of the rest of that garbage happens then.

Missed my point - right hand around the waist? Was that because the defender was backing into him? There is no way on the video to tell if that is where contact happened by the defender. Left arm over the shoulder? When the player moves from the offensive players right side to the left side, the defensive player reaches over the top of the offensive players left arm, this is not illegal. What's illegal is when the offensive player starts to reach to hold the defensive player and the defensive player than grabs and the pulls the offensive player.

I think the problem is that every official is always told "get the first foul, get the first foul" so now you are looking at trying to find that first foul at the earliest point. If each player had backed away after the 13 second mark, we would all say, "I am not calling that one" but since you obviously have something later on, you're trying to back up and find the first one.

[JRutledge]

Team control foul on the offensive post player. Never understand why we allow the offensive player to get away with murder and we penalize the defender when it gets rough.

Peace

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Team control foul on the offensive post player. Never understand why we allow the offensive player to get away with murder and we penalize the defender when it gets rough.

Peace

I have to agree. We have to know who is initiating contact. When the defender switches to guard the post player, the offense creates contact by backing the defense into the lane. The defense tries to resist and is able to hold their position. The defender then tries to re-position to the high side and the offense again displaces the defender up to the FT line. The defender then tries to establish position on the low side and is displaced again. The defender is forced to hold as a result of displacement in the last two situations.

On this play, know who is initiating contact.

The L needed to be on this side of the floor to see this play.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by APG

Hold on the defender...but I' could buy a hold on the offensive player if I saw the play from another angle...as long as one doesn't cop out to calling a double foul.

Uh, this post is kind of a cop out isn't it?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Team control foul on the offensive post player. Never understand why we allow the offensive player to get away with murder and we penalize the defender when it gets rough.

Peace

+1