Block/Charge - Beating a Dead Horse

[maven]

Notice that most of these posts are suggesting that you ignore percentages and learn the rule properly. The key to getting block/charge right every time is two steps:

1. Know the rule.
2. Referee the defense, esp. watching for LGP.

Once you've got that, you'll know what you're seeing.

That said, I'll add this about your particular case: the defender who is already falling down — literally on his way to the floor — prior to contact is not going to be disadvantaged by contact, and thus contact will not be a foul.

On the other hand, defenders who have LGP are BY RULE permitted to turn or otherwise move to protect themselves from the contact. If that's what you see, then responsibility for contact will remain with the offense.

You have to judge what you're seeing and make the call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by maven

That said, I'll add this about your particular case: the defender who is already falling down — literally on his way to the floor — prior to contact is not going to be disadvantaged by contact, and thus contact will not be a foul.

On the other hand, defenders who have LGP are BY RULE permitted to turn or otherwise move to protect themselves from the contact. If that's what you see, then responsibility for contact will remain with the offense.

You have to judge what you're seeing and make the call.

I'll add this about your particular case: the offense who goes through the defender who was already falling down --- literally on his way to the floor — prior to contact is still going to gain an advantage by contact and has committed a foul.

Fouls are not just about the affect it has on the foulee but the benefit it gives to the fouler. In this case, the shooter took a path that was not available to them...a spot occupied by a defender.

Fading away from contact in now way takes away the defenders right to their spot and they are allowed to do so. It can be one way they protect themselves. Fading away is far different than flinging themselves backwards in an attempt to trick you into calling a foul.

[Adam]

I tend to default to a charge in these plays. IOW, if I can't clearly see what the defender does wrong, he gets the benefit of the doubt. I have no idea how that translates to percentages, but that's going to change from game to game.

I think we had five charges and two blocks last night, but that's not the norm.

[Pantherdreams]

The player falling back or protecting themselves does not create a block. They are in LGB and allowed to move backwards. Now the question becomes is it a charge or a no call. Contact would have displaced the defender regardless of the backwards fall/move. CHarge. Contact only displaces defender because of backwards fall/move. No Call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I tend to default to a charge in these plays. IOW, if I can't clearly see what the defender does wrong, he gets the benefit of the doubt. I have no idea how that translates to percentages, but that's going to change from game to game.

I think we had five charges and two blocks last night, but that's not the norm.

I have had several games where I did not call a single block. I have had games where the crew did not call a single block and we are talking about 5 calls that all were charges. Not saying that happens all the time, but I think video is helping. I think there was a time when people would call blocks just because. Now that tide seems to have turned to call charges or maybe better training has helped this come true as well?

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have had several games where I did not call a single block. I have had games where the crew did not call a single block and we are talking about 5 calls that all were charges. Not saying that happens all the time, but I think video is helping. I think there was a time when people would call blocks just because. Now that tide seems to have turned to call charges or maybe better training has helped this come true as well?

Peace

I think that we still aren't necessarily (as a collective group, not any individual) refereeing the defense -- I think many officials just take a close block/charge crash and ship it rather than evaluating each play on its own merits.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I think that we still aren't necessarily (as a collective group, not any individual) refereeing the defense -- I think many officials just take a close block/charge crash and ship it rather than evaluating each play on its own merits.

I think there is a general position to penalize defensive players and never give them the benefit of the doubt. I might be refereeing the defense is a problem, but I tend to think many do not have the courage to call a foul on the offense because they feel they will get more crap. Just like we penalized defensive players in the post when they were held, grabbed and pushed, but when the defense reacts to those things we call the foul on them. The same thing goes for shooters that try to go somewhere they cannot, instead of not calling anything we call fouls on the defenders.

Peace

[Pantherdreams]

I would agree that officials tend to penalize the defense more/ give the offense the benefit of the doubt. Part of the issue is that defense so so much less dynamic in terms of movement, balance, etc. There is no manipulative on defense. That I think a lot of officials rightly or wrongly see these dynamic or agility movements the offense makes as finess moves and when contact intereferes they are more likely to call the foul because its obviously interfering with what the player is trying to do. The defense however is just in a balanced stance (in theory) competiting as hard as they can and unless they get knocked down really don't visiblly lose momentum balance they do not have have fine motor skills/footwork to be interuppted. PLay on!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think there is a general position to penalize defensive players and never give them the benefit of the doubt. I might be refereeing the defense is a problem, but I tend to think many do not have the courage to call a foul on the offense because they feel they will get more crap. Just like we penalized defensive players in the post when they were held, grabbed and pushed, but when the defense reacts to those things we call the foul on them. The same thing goes for shooters that try to go somewhere they cannot, instead of not calling anything we call fouls on the defenders.

Peace

Really? That's how you see it? I really think there are more charges called now than ever -- and many of them should be blocks.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Rich

I think that we still aren't necessarily (as a collective group, not any individual) refereeing the defense -- I think many officials just take a close block/charge crash and ship it rather than evaluating each play on its own merits.

I agree about not refereeing the defense but not necessarily about the tendency for officials to just ship it.

The guy who really trained me after I had done mostly intramural ball as an undergrad student really stressed refereeing the defense. I think it is a basic principal that is critical to overall call accuracy, especially on the block/charge.

I don't think its taught enough or fully understood by a lot of officials and associations/training bodies in general.

Many officials, especially newer ones, are concentrating on the ball handler/shooter. So when there is a crash with a defender they have no idea if that defender is legal or not because they never picked them up. So the tendency is to call a block on the player that just showed up in your vision.

Take a play in transition for example. I see many of the officials I observe, especially at the sub-varsity level but too many varsity officials as well, focused on the guy with the ball. What I suggest is to literally shift your vision primarily to the defender and pick up where they are at. Getting in the habit of doing this first then you can expand your vision as you get more experience.

When people understand what refereeing the defense means its much easier to call these plays accurately.

[Art N]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'll add this about your particular case: the offense who goes through the defender who was already falling down --- literally on his way to the floor — prior to contact is still going to gain an advantage by contact and has committed a foul.

Fouls are not just about the affect it has on the foulee but the benefit it gives to the fouler. In this case, the shooter took a path that was not available to them...a spot occupied by a defender.

Fading away from contact in now way takes away the defenders right to their spot and they are allowed to do so. It can be one way they protect themselves. Fading away is far different than flinging themselves backwards in an attempt to trick you into calling a foul.

I agree! I have had partners tell me that if the defender is falling they are not calling a charge! Oh boy!

[just another ref]

The only thing worse than having a default is calling a play a charge "because a similar play on the other end was called a charge."

jmo

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The only thing worse than having a default is calling a play a charge "because a similar play on the other end was called a charge."

jmo

So you say you get ever block-charge play correct then?

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So you say you get every block-charge play correct then?

Peace

Did I say anything remotely close to that?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Did I say anything remotely close to that?

Not necessarily, but people use "defaults" so that they can be decisive.

I have said before, that if I have to slow down a video to see if an official got a play right, then I can go with the official's call. Sometimes these plays are so close, I do not have an issue with someone that has a "default" to make a call. And I certainly do not equate it to what some say about, "If we have that call on this end, let us have that same call on the other end." That is crazy because you are not even considering how different the play is you just called. But a personal default might be what you do in a very close situation. I have found that not many plays are that close. It is more of a myth that the block-charge call is the hardest to call in the game when you referee the defense of course.

Peace