No time on Clock Free Throws

[yooperbballref]

Ok, I have seen this happen so many times and have asked multiple people on this and I can never get a straight answer. How is it possible for a player to shoot a free throw with the clock reading 0:00?Assuming the clock when an official blows the whistle, then logicly it should be impossible for there to be free throws with no time on the clock, but time and time again I see this happening.

To me, there is 2 options that an official can do it this situation.
1. Count the foul, and put time back on the clock (even if its just .2) before administering the free throws.
2 Say foul was after the horn and move on with the game, or post game handshakes.

Your thoughts....

[Adam]

Unless an official sees time on the clock when he blows his whistle, he cannot just put time on.

There is also the fact that when a foul occurs, it often takes a second to hit the whistle.

And there are airborne shooters who could actually be fouled during a live ball after the horn sounds.

And are you serious with #2?

[rekent]

Off the cuff thought, what's important is when the foul occurred, not when the whistle sounded. So if the foul resulting in free-throws happened pre-horn, you're shooting regardless of time on the clock.

Unless you are using some kind of PTS system, there will be human delay time in stopping the clock, several tenths, and this is just an understood thing. Unless an official has definite knowledge of the time that should be on the clock, as a result of a visible count or such, no clock adjustment can be made. So if the official calls the foul, then looks to the clock, there is still a delay and there would be no definite knowledge of the clock at the time of the foul.

I have a feeling that was rather unintelligible and I am about to be skewered though...

[yooperbballref]

After talking it over with your partner and the two or three of you decide the foul was commited before the horn then there shouldn't be 0:00 on the clock for the free throws. If you decide there should be 0:00 on the clock then the foul shouldn't of been counted because it was after the horn.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by yooperbballref

After talking it over with your partner and the two or three of you decide the foul was commited before the horn then there shouldn't be 0:00 on the clock for the free throws.

Often this is not true.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by yooperbballref

After talking it over with your partner and the two or three of you decide the foul was commited before the horn then there shouldn't be 0:00 on the clock for the free throws. If you decide there should be 0:00 on the clock then the foul shouldn't of been counted because it was after the horn.

Wrong and really wrong. Try again.

[rekent]

Did you read above posts?

Originally Posted by yooperbballref

After talking it over with your partner and the two or three of you decide the foul was commited before the horn then there shouldn't be 0:00 on the clock for the free throws.

So are you suggesting that, without any definite knowledge of the amount of time that should be on the clock, the officials choose an arbitrary amount of time just so that it does not read 0:00?!

Originally Posted by yooperbballref

If you decide there should be 0:00 on the clock then the foul shouldn't of been counted because it was after the horn.

Again, if foul was pre-horn but whistle was post horn, it doesn't matter - shoot the free-throws. Critical time is the time at which the foul took place, not the time that is several tenths or seconds later due to human mental processing/action delays.

[SNIPERBBB]

Might be helpful to read the rules for this situation...

ART. 2

Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal illuminates or sounds indicating time has expired, as in 1-14.

EXCEPTIONS:

1. If the ball is in flight during a try or tap for field goal, the quarter or extra period ends when the try or tap ends.

2. If a held ball or violation occurs so near the expiration of time that the clock is not stopped before time expires, the quarter or extra period ends with the held ball or violation.

3. If a foul occurs so near the expiration of time that the timer cannot get the clock stopped before time expires or after time expires, but while the ball is in flight during a try or tap for field goal. The quarter or extra period ends when the free throw(s) and all related activity have been completed. No penalty or part of a penalty carries over from one quarter or extra period to the next, except when a correctable error, as in 2-10, is rectified. No free throw(s) shall be attempted after time has expired for the fourth quarter or any extra period, unless the point(s) would affect the outcome of the game.

4. If a technical foul occurs after the ball has become dead to end a quarter or extra period, the next quarter or extra period is started by administering the free throws. This applies when the foul occurs after any quarter has ended, including the fourth quarter, provided there is to be an extra period. If there is no way to determine whether there will be an extra period until the free throws are administered, the free throws are attempted immediately, as if the foul had been part of the preceding quarter.

[BillyMac]

Old fashioned, mechanical, scoreboards could show 0:00 without the horn sounding. Check with the table to make sure that the automatic horn was turned on, and, if so, shoot the free throws with rebounders in place.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Old fashioned, mechanical, scoreboards could show 0:00 without the horn sounding. Check with the table to make sure that the automatic horn was turned on, and, if so, shoot the free throws with rebounders in place.

Not at all relevant to the OP.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by yooperbballref

After talking it over with your partner and the two or three of you decide the foul was commited before the horn then there shouldn't be 0:00 on the clock for the free throws. If you decide there should be 0:00 on the clock then the foul shouldn't of been counted because it was after the horn.

That's logical.

It's also contrary to the rules which state that this is not a "timer's error", but is an "allowed reaction time" (or whatever the specific words are) and cannot be corrected unless (a) you have a monitor or (b) one of the officials has definitive knowledge of the time involved.

Here's a paragraph from the NCAA case book (but it applies to FED as well);

However, when the official signals for the clock to stop and it is so near the expiration of time that the timer is unable to stop the clock, this is not a timer’s mistake and time should not be placed back on the game clock. When the official determines that the foul occurred before the sounding of the game-clock horn, the basket shall not count and A1 is awarded two free throws. When A1 makes the first shot, the game is over. When both free throws are unsuccessful, the game continues with an extra period(s). On a foul that occurs near the expiration of time, officials must determine that the clock did not stop when the whistle sounded either because a timing mistake occurred or because it was so near the expiration of time that the timer is unable to stop the clock. In the first case, time is put back on the game clock and the game has not ended and in the second case, time is not placed back on the clock and the game has ended.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Not at all relevant to the OP.

It most certainly is relevant: No Time On Clock Free Throws

Or: How is it possible for a player to shoot a free throw with the clock reading 0:00?

It's quite possible in the situation I stated. It's happened to me, more than once, in thirty-two years.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It most certainly is relevant: No Time On Clock Free Throws

Or: How is it possible for a player to shoot a free throw with the clock reading 0:00?

It's quite possible in the situation I stated. It's happened to me, more than once, in thirty-two years.

Your example is about whether to have players on the lane or not. It is possible to shoot free throws with 0:00 on the clock whether there is time left and whether the horn has sounded or not. That's what the OP is about.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by yooperbballref

After talking it over with your partner and the two or three of you decide the foul was commited before the horn then there shouldn't be 0:00 on the clock for the free throws. If you decide there should be 0:00 on the clock then the foul shouldn't of been counted because it was after the horn.

Simply not true.

If a player yells "Timeout!" while saving an errant pass, do you still grant the timeout, even though you hit the whistle after he landed OOB? Of course you do.

Same principle.

It sounds like you're hung up on this and can't get past it. But believe us, every official who came before you is NOT wrong. You are.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by yooperbballref

How is it possible for a player to shoot a free throw with the clock reading 0:00?Assuming the clock when an official blows the whistle, then logically it should be impossible for there to be free throws with no time on the clock, but time and time again I see this happening.

To me, there is 2 options that an official can do it this situation.
1. Count the foul, and put time back on the clock (even if its just .2) before administering the free throws.
2 Say foul was after the horn and move on with the game, or post game handshakes.

Your thoughts....

A shooter is an airborne shooter and can be fouled until they land. They only need to release the shot before time expires. So, it is quite easy for a shooter to release the shot, have time expire, and then get fouled before landing.