Contact above the shoulders

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by OKREF

My thought is that a stationary elbow would be when a player "chins" the ball and then pivots and the elbows aren't moving faster than the shoulders. Contact that happens with this action would either be incidental or a common foul. If a player "leads" with the elbow, and they are moving faster than the shoulders I would have either intentional or flagrant.

If anyone is even close to this player and they are pivoting with elbows out I am getting them for a violation. Players have to learn to quit using their elbows as a defensive weapon on rebounding.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

If anyone is even close to this player and they are pivoting with elbows out I am getting them for a violation.

If the player is pivoting normally, and not swinging the elbows faster than the torso, you can't call a violation by rule.

[ref3808]

4-24-8 leaves a lot of room for an official to call a violation.

b. The aggressiveness with which the arms and elbows are swung would cause injury to another player if contacted.

There's a lot of leeway there I think especially when we're instructed to "promptly and unhesitatingly rule such action with arms and elbows a violation"

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by ref3808

4-24-8 leaves a lot of room for an official to call a violation.

b. The aggressiveness with which the arms and elbows are swung would cause injury to another player if contacted.

There's a lot of leeway there I think especially when we're instructed to "promptly and unhesitatingly rule such action with arms and elbows a violation"

Yep and I think with it being a POE, they want us calling this more often. Get the violations consistently, which is almost every time someone rebounds and pivots. If no one is around, letting it go. If anyone has a face near those elbows, Tweet! violation. FWIW, I have only called one violation this year after 7 or 8 games.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ref3808

4-24-8 leaves a lot of room for an official to call a violation.

b. The aggressiveness with which the arms and elbows are swung would cause injury to another player if contacted.

There's a lot of leeway there I think especially when we're instructed to "promptly and unhesitatingly rule such action with arms and elbows a violation"

I've always read it as "a. AND b." not "a. OR b."

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by ref3808

4-24-8 leaves a lot of room for an official to call a violation.

b. The aggressiveness with which the arms and elbows are swung would cause injury to another player if contacted.

Hard to see how pivoting normally could be construed as overly-aggressive.

Plus, 9-13-3 tells us that elbow movement that results from total body movement is NOT to be considered excessive.