Heads, shoulders, knees and feet

[rainmaker]

Okay, this post won't really be about heads and shoulders, but there are some knees and feet.

Yesterday, girls scrambling for the ball, one player sits down but her legs are folded so she's resting on her butt, and both knees are touching the floor also. (a) She shifts her weight up off her butt and then is up on both knees. Is that travelling?

(b) Then she lifts one knee and puts that foot on the floor, so that she's in the "I dub thee Lady McCann" position. Is that travelling?

Then she lifts the knee that was on the floor. I know that's travelling. But I didn't see it. I was too close to the play. My partner had to blow it from 35 feet. I was glad he did, when he told me about it, but unhappy at the moment. (c) I guess I should have stepped back (I was lead)? But I had stepped closer to see the ball. Gotta figure out how to handle this.

Corollary questions: (1) It's not travelling if a player with the ball is laying on her back, and then sits up. Is it then travelling to fold the legs back so she's in the position that my player above was in at the beginning of the play I described?

(2) If a player is on one knee when she retrieves the ball, and then puts down the other knee and picks up the knee that was down, is that travelling?

(3) If any of these actions legal as described, but they are committed in a hasty overlapping style, are they travelling?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

(a) -- I would say no.

(b) -- Yes.

(1) -- Huh??

(2) -- I would say yes.

(3) -- Now we're in the "Would have to see it" area.

[ChuckElias]

(a) Yes

(b) Yes

(1) Probably not (her pivot cheek never left the floor), unless you judge it to be a clear attempt to get up.

(2) Yes.

(3) HTBT, but sure sounds like traveling.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Pivot CHEEK? That's a new one I haven't heard before.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Pivot CHEEK? That's a new one I haven't heard before.

That's b/c you've only been around since July '05. Padgett will explain it to you.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
(a) Yes

(b) Yes

(1) Probably not (her pivot cheek never left the floor), unless you judge it to be a clear attempt to get up.

(2) Yes.

(3) HTBT, but sure sounds like traveling.

Juulie,
Assuming that the player in question has possession of the ball, you never stated that she does, then Chuck gave you the correct answers.

[drothamel]

in (2) the one knee down and retrieve the ball scenario, wouldn't it only be traveling if she not only picked up the first knee, but also put it back down? Or started a dribble after picking it up?

The way I am reading it, it sounds the same as if a player were to catch the ball while standing on one foot. Putting down the other foot and picking up the first one is okay, it is putting the first one down that causes the violation or starting the dribble with that foot off the ground.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by drothamel
in (2) the one knee down and retrieve the ball scenario, wouldn't it only be traveling if she not only picked up the first knee, but also put it back down? Or started a dribble after picking it up?

The way I am reading it, it sounds the same as if a player were to catch the ball while standing on one foot. Putting down the other foot and picking up the first one is okay, it is putting the first one down that causes the violation or starting the dribble with that foot off the ground.

It is not the same as the feet. Making or breaking contact with the ground with a knee is traveling. Lifting the knee is an attempt to get up.

[Texas Aggie]

I think you are making this too hard.

The traveling rule applies to standing only (i.e. on your fee), except for situations where you gain control of the ball "while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot." In that situation, the only thing the casebook says she can't do is "roll over." She can pass, shoot, dribble, or call time out. That includes, per the case book, "sitting up."

Essentially, if someone is on the floor with the ball legally, you call any action that gains an advantage and ignore (other than "roll over", I guess) what doesn't gain an advantage. I think most any action if they are guarded is going to be ruled as gaining an advantage, but I'm sure there is a situation that isn't.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
I think you are making this too hard.

Essentially, if someone is on the floor with the ball legally, you call any action that gains an advantage and ignore (other than "roll over", I guess) what doesn't gain an advantage. I think most any action if they are guarded is going to be ruled as gaining an advantage, but I'm sure there is a situation that isn't.

And you think what other people said makes it too hard? What you said is so vague it doesn't really end up saying anything.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
The traveling rule applies to standing only (i.e. on your fee), ...

Here in Portland, Oregon our players have to pay fees to play. Are you saying the fees affect the rules?!?