how many fouls is too many?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by maroonx

Calling too many fouls extends the game.

Lots of good reasons to pass on some fouls. This (above) is not one of them.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Lots of good reasons to pass on some fouls contact. This (above) is not one of them.

There, all better now.

[MD Longhorn]

The only real issue I have is with "I was banging them every time to send a message". If they were fouls, they were fouls. (And based on what some of the others here said, maybe they weren't). No need for a motive. Call what you see.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The only real issue I have is with "I was banging them every time to send a message". If they were fouls, they were fouls. (And based on what some of the others here said, maybe they weren't). No need for a motive. Call what you see.

42 in a half is a lot of fouls. I'm not saying it's too many in this instance, but *others that were there did*.

(42 in 16 minutes means a foul every 22.85 seconds. That's a lot of fouls.)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich

42 in a half is a lot of fouls. I'm not saying it's too many in this instance, but *others that were there did*.

(42 in 16 minutes means a foul every 22.85 seconds. That's a lot of fouls.)

I don't disagree. Just saying I have a bigger issue with the admitted existence of a motive for calling the fouls.

[maroonx]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I don't disagree. Just saying I have a bigger issue with the admitted existence of a motive for calling the fouls.

only motive that the contact was illegal.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by maroonx

only motive that the contact was illegal.

Which was only questioned because of your expressed motive "to send a message." Combined with the reference to "reaching," and it understandably drew questions. Let me ask this:

Did the dribblers play through it without being affected?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Rich

(42 in 16 minutes means a foul every 22.85 seconds. That's a lot of fouls.)

I don't know about other locations, but I don't believe we play 8 minute quarters at JV levels here (could be wrong though, been a while). Which, of course makes your point even more!

[rockyroad]

Quick questions for maroons...

Of those 42 fouls in the first half, how many did you call? How many did your partner call? Was it 50-50 or close to that? Or more like you called 30+ and he only had about 10 or so?

Just trying to find out a little more info on the "message" you were sending...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I don't know about other locations, but I don't believe we play 8 minute quarters at JV levels here (could be wrong though, been a while). Which, of course makes your point even more!

Didn't think of that -- we're about half and half. Thrills me when a school plays 7 minute quarters -- it's the only way the V game starts on time!

At 7 minute quarters, it's a foul every 20 seconds on the button.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Rich

Didn't think of that -- we're about half and half. Thrills me when a school plays 7 minute quarters -- it's the only way the V game starts on time!

At 7 minute quarters, it's a foul every 20 seconds on the button.

And never forget that getting the V game started on time is all we care about.

Right?

Right???

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And never forget that getting the V game started on time is all we care about.

Right?

Right???

There are few people that appreciate a 7:30PM game starting at 8:02PM.

Parents? Nope.

Coaches? Nope.

Support staff? Nope.

Officials? Nope.

Radio/TV? Certainly not.

So let's stop talking about starting on time as if it's some kind of evil. It behooves everyone to stay on schedule, when possible.

I watch a lot of JV basketball and sometimes the thing that's missing is PACE. Officials don't hustle during dead balls, don't start play promptly, dawdle during substitutions and free throws. And they call 42 fouls in a half.

We're scheduled for 7:15 tip tonight. These extra-special early tips never start before the usual start time of 7:30PM. But we need to show 15 minutes earlier anyway, just in case. Sigh.

[Moosie74]

Originally Posted by Rich

42 in a half is a lot of fouls. I'm not saying it's too many in this instance, but *others that were there did*.

(42 in 16 minutes means a foul every 22.85 seconds. That's a lot of fouls.)

My partner and I called a boys JV game the other night and called 22 fouls the entire night.

We had the rough stuff, the hand checking and all that, once there were a couple of calls for each offense, the players figured it out and stopped.

The players will adjust to the officials style if you let them but there has to be a consistency established for that to happen.

As a second year official I very rarely feel that I have passed on too many calls in a game.

You need to find a balance in your game and in your ability to judge what is a foul, what is contact and what is really going to affect the game. The players and coaches don't want to spend the game shooting foul shots.

Using Rich's numbers at 1 every 22 seconds, you're essentially calling a foul every other trip down the floor.

I think I can safely say part of the reason we officiate is that we do it for fun, blowing the whistle every other trip down the floor is not fun for us and it is especially not fun for the people involved.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Moosie74

The players will adjust to the officials style if you let them but there has to be a consistency established for that to happen.

I've heard for years, "Call the fouls; the players will adapt."

However, this isn't always the case.

I had a JVG last Friday night that had about 50 fouls. It wasn't really an overly aggressive game. It was what I call "players trying to play above their level." Consequently, there's a fair amount of bumping, handchecking, and simply unnecessarily advantageous contact. What's more, the girls weren't learning from the calls. They just kept going at the same pace, and it was working for the home team, who won 46-22 (even though three home players fouled out).

Cut to Monday afternoon, MS girls. These players learned. One example was a first-quarter rebounding displacement foul I called. The girl looked at her coach and said, "but I was boxing out!" (Sound familiar?) I didn't have a displacement foul on that team the rest of the game. In fact, the contact cleaned up so much, we didn't have a bonus situation until overtime, and it was a well-played game for that level, so I enjoyed the extra frame.

Oh, the only time I see 7 minute quarters here is in middle school. About half of middle schools do 8 minute quarters. All HS levels here do 8 minutes.

[grunewar]

Continuing with the hijack.....

I've had several games this season already with an announced starting time of 7:45 - which pushes us even later than normal of course.

The other night I had a great 2 x OT thriller!

Of course, getting home at 1015 (with a wake-up call of 0400) is NOT so great!