how many fouls is too many?

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by eyezen

First of all pay no attention to those varsity guys.

...are you serious?

...if so, let me know how that works out for you?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Lots of good reasons to pass on some fouls contact. This (above) is not one of them.

There, all better now.

[Pantherdreams]

42 in a half seems like a lot, but without seeing the game I can't say for sure it is too many.

Things to consider:

- It is your job to call the game and manage the game not decide how it is played or send "messages". If there is llegal contact that is more then incidental and leading to adv/disadv. situation you call the foul. Don't worry about how teams are playing or "cleaning it up" just call the fouls you see.

- If both teams are pressing, both teams are probably experienced and capable of playing through pressure. In a JV game you might have some disparate levels of size and athleticism but if both teams are playing this hard, then they may have the capability to play through the contact you are finding excessive in a JV game. Be patient and call the game and play that is infront of you.

- Officiate the defense but don't hold them responsible for everything that happens. If a defender is putting his hands in and on/ forearms in and on the the offense doesn't like the contact so they stop or change their direction, that is very different (imo) then the offense getting directed or moved off their path by hands/forearms. The ball handler also has no expectation of time and space so there will be some contact and maintaining of space by both that will be required as the game moves on. If it is not clearly hurting the ball carriers ability to perform their current action or is not rough play you don't have to call that just because you don't like the action.

- We are not the arbitors of what is and is not good defense. You get to determine if it is legal or illegal and if there are fouls taking place. Just because positionally they do different things, or they have more active hands then we were coached or like to see doesn't make it wrong. You just have to call the game in front of you.

[MD Longhorn]

The only real issue I have is with "I was banging them every time to send a message". If they were fouls, they were fouls. (And based on what some of the others here said, maybe they weren't). No need for a motive. Call what you see.

[Welpe]

I started this thread at about this time last year and we had a good little discussion. You may find it useful.

Rough perimeter play

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The only real issue I have is with "I was banging them every time to send a message". If they were fouls, they were fouls. (And based on what some of the others here said, maybe they weren't). No need for a motive. Call what you see.

42 in a half is a lot of fouls. I'm not saying it's too many in this instance, but *others that were there did*.

(42 in 16 minutes means a foul every 22.85 seconds. That's a lot of fouls.)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich

42 in a half is a lot of fouls. I'm not saying it's too many in this instance, but *others that were there did*.

(42 in 16 minutes means a foul every 22.85 seconds. That's a lot of fouls.)

I don't disagree. Just saying I have a bigger issue with the admitted existence of a motive for calling the fouls.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Rich

(42 in 16 minutes means a foul every 22.85 seconds. That's a lot of fouls.)

I don't know about other locations, but I don't believe we play 8 minute quarters at JV levels here (could be wrong though, been a while). Which, of course makes your point even more!

[rockyroad]

Quick questions for maroons...

Of those 42 fouls in the first half, how many did you call? How many did your partner call? Was it 50-50 or close to that? Or more like you called 30+ and he only had about 10 or so?

Just trying to find out a little more info on the "message" you were sending...

[Moosie74]

Originally Posted by Rich

42 in a half is a lot of fouls. I'm not saying it's too many in this instance, but *others that were there did*.

(42 in 16 minutes means a foul every 22.85 seconds. That's a lot of fouls.)

My partner and I called a boys JV game the other night and called 22 fouls the entire night.

We had the rough stuff, the hand checking and all that, once there were a couple of calls for each offense, the players figured it out and stopped.

The players will adjust to the officials style if you let them but there has to be a consistency established for that to happen.

As a second year official I very rarely feel that I have passed on too many calls in a game.

You need to find a balance in your game and in your ability to judge what is a foul, what is contact and what is really going to affect the game. The players and coaches don't want to spend the game shooting foul shots.

Using Rich's numbers at 1 every 22 seconds, you're essentially calling a foul every other trip down the floor.

I think I can safely say part of the reason we officiate is that we do it for fun, blowing the whistle every other trip down the floor is not fun for us and it is especially not fun for the people involved.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I don't know about other locations, but I don't believe we play 8 minute quarters at JV levels here (could be wrong though, been a while). Which, of course makes your point even more!

Didn't think of that -- we're about half and half. Thrills me when a school plays 7 minute quarters -- it's the only way the V game starts on time!

At 7 minute quarters, it's a foul every 20 seconds on the button.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Rich

Didn't think of that -- we're about half and half. Thrills me when a school plays 7 minute quarters -- it's the only way the V game starts on time!

At 7 minute quarters, it's a foul every 20 seconds on the button.

And never forget that getting the V game started on time is all we care about.

Right?

Right???

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And never forget that getting the V game started on time is all we care about.

Right?

Right???

There are few people that appreciate a 7:30PM game starting at 8:02PM.

Parents? Nope.

Coaches? Nope.

Support staff? Nope.

Officials? Nope.

Radio/TV? Certainly not.

So let's stop talking about starting on time as if it's some kind of evil. It behooves everyone to stay on schedule, when possible.

I watch a lot of JV basketball and sometimes the thing that's missing is PACE. Officials don't hustle during dead balls, don't start play promptly, dawdle during substitutions and free throws. And they call 42 fouls in a half.

We're scheduled for 7:15 tip tonight. These extra-special early tips never start before the usual start time of 7:30PM. But we need to show 15 minutes earlier anyway, just in case. Sigh.

[Adam]

Honestly, that's on the schools. Schedule accordingly.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Adam

Honestly, that's on the schools. Schedule accordingly.

Not always. If a school starts a JV game with 7 minute quarters at 5:50PM, there's no reason a V game can't start by 7:30PM. Sometimes, the officials *can* help keep things moving.

Tonight? I agree. The 7:15PM listed time is a joke. I'll find out what time the JV game was scheduled for and report back tomorrow. Wouldn't shock me if it was 5:45PM or even 6PM. You can't put any of that on the officials, especially since there's a minimum of 20 minutes between the JV and varsity games.