how many fouls is too many?

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by maroonx

I did a JV game and in the first half we called 42 fouls. 5th year officiating for both me and my partner. Both teams were pressing hard. Lots of arm barring, hand checking, reaching. I was banging them everytime to send a message. Lost of displacement and redirecting by defenders with body hands, elbow forearms.

At half time my partner was saying that some of those fouls should be let go because the offensive player would of not lost the ball or would of gone pass the defender.

There were some officials in the locker room getting ready for the varsity game after and was telling us that we called way too many fouls. The guy said he was counting them. It seems the discussion was like let things go, calling to many fouls extends the game etc. Needless to say, 2nd half not that much pressing.

Maybe I am over thinking this but I get on the floor and if it is a long game I am there to call it no matter how many fouls or how long. I read somewhere in the NHFS rule book, that we are suppose to call the game regardless of score or situation in the game. After each game I work, I wont to come out of it that I call the perfect game.

First of all pay no attention to those varsity guys. They are worried about one thing and one thing only...their game starting on time and you are holding them up. You partner I would pay more attention to but only to a point, was he sincere or did it seem like you we're keeping him from beer:30?

Without being there we can't have a opinion that means anything but in and of itself the numbers don't mean anything. If the players aren't adjusting so be it. Sounds like they did for the second half.

What you need to recollect is was RSBQ affected? Were your calls matching your partners? (From your post this is the only thing I would question, but at the same time maybe he wasn't calling enough). Only you can answer that.

I would say get a mentor that you trust and have him give you an opinion

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by eyezen

First of all pay no attention to those varsity guys.

...are you serious?

...if so, let me know how that works out for you?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by eyezen

First of all pay no attention to those varsity guys. They are worried about one thing and one thing only...their game starting on time and you are holding them up.

This is bad advice.

Do varsity officials want to start on time? Of course. But to say that is the ONLY motivation for their comments is a bad assumption.

My association takes evaluations of JV officials pretty seriously. Most of us make a concerted effort to give constructive feedback.

As far as the OP I think you should consider a few things:

42 fouls in one half of basketball is not "a lot" of fouls its is a RIDICULOUSLY high amount. Hard to imagine even in the most physical of contests at the JV level that that many fouls was warranted.

Your partner AND the varsity officials watching ALL thought you had too many whistles. Maybe you were right and they were all wrong but I've usually found that when it's me vs three, four other people maybe I should reconsider my position.

You said you were "banging them every time to send a message." What message are you trying to send? You called a enough fouls to put both teams in the double bonus TWICE. If they don't get the message when the other team is shooting two FTs for every foul then again, what message are you trying to send.

Basketball is a contact sport. There is going to be some level of contact. You have to get some of the things you mentioned but you can also allow players to play through some contact if it's not advantageous.

[zm1283]

Calling fouls when someone breaths on someone else isn't exclusive to JV officials. There are plenty of varsity officials that do the same.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Calling fouls when someone breaths on someone else isn't exclusive to JV officials. There are plenty of varsity officials that do the same.

At what level do you think it is more prevalent?

Here the order of "eliteness" is BV, GV, BJV, GJV. So as a general rule of thumb your BV games are going to have the top crew for any particular set of games.

I remember one day waiting to do my BV game watching the GV crew loligag for an entire game. Not getting teams out of huddles, taking forever to get them lined up for free throws, talking to each other during an injury stoppage and not realizing the injured player had been long ago removed from the court, etc. This was after their game started late b/c they BOTH got the start time wrong (even though the GV games had a standard start time and both officials were veterans).

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

At what level do you think it is more prevalent?

Here the order of "eliteness" is BV, GV, BJV, GJV. So as a general rule of thumb your BV games are going to have the top crew for any particular set of games.

I remember one day waiting to do my BV game watching the GV crew loligag for an entire game. Not getting teams out of huddles, taking forever to get them lined up for free throws, talking to each other during an injury stoppage and not realizing the injured player had been long ago removed from the court, etc. This was after their game started late b/c they BOTH got the start time wrong (even though the GV games had a standard start time and both officials were veterans).

I'm not denying that it's more prevalent at the lower levels. Around here we don't have separate JV/V officials. The schools play doubleheaders and we work both games. You'll occasionally get a varsity game by itself because one of the teams doesn't have enough players for a JV game, but otherwise we work two games. We have separate freshmen games, and I'm sure that is where it is more prevalent in my area.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I'm not denying that it's more prevalent at the lower levels. Around here we don't have separate JV/V officials. The schools play doubleheaders and we work both games. You'll occasionally get a varsity game by itself because one of the teams doesn't have enough players for a JV game, but otherwise we work two games. We have separate freshmen games, and I'm sure that is where it is more prevalent in my area.

DHs for public school games are rare around here. Usually just done for single-A (smallest schools). So most times we have a crew waiting on another crew to finish up.

[rockyroad]

This thread has turned in to a "bash on other crews" thread for some reason...every single one of us posting on this forum has had games where we didn't do a very good job. Let's quit b!tching about other crews and find something that we can learn from from our own games.

Example: had a GV game two weeks ago where we were shooting double bonus both ways with 1:23 to go in the FIRST quarter. At the end of the quarter we got together and we certainly did not discuss whether the boys game was going to start on time or not. We talked about the fact that we really could not pass on these calls. They literally were playing rugby out there. Rest of the game went smoothly because the players adapted and stopped being stupid.

Boys game started about 20 minutes late. But since we were doing the doubleheader that night we really didn't care that much. We were able to keep that first game under control and nothing stupid happened.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

They literally were playing rugby out there.

That I doubt, but the point is well taken.

It's not our responsibility to make sure the next game starts on time. Someone is always going to razz you if your game runs long, but that could just be camaraderie. Any official worth his salt will not blame you for doing your job correctly.

[icallfouls]

Way too much. This doesn't even allow players to absorb contact and see if they can play through it. Based on the key words: reaching, handchecking, and arm bars - it sounds like these were all on ball calls. Players were not getting a chance to be players.

At some point the crew needs to let them play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

They literally were playing rugby out there.

Why do people type 'literally' when they literally don't mean literally? It's like they need a word for emphasis and just pick one at random - choosing one that means the opposite of what they mean.

Pet peeve? Yes.

"Literally" is used to tell the reader that the seemingly impossible thing I'm about to say is not meant metaphorically and is not exaggeration ... but is, in fact, EXACTLY true, believe it or not.

They were not, LITERALLY, playing rugby out there.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Why do people type 'literally' when they literally don't mean literally? It's like they need a word for emphasis and just pick one at random - choosing one that means the opposite of what they mean.

Pet peeve? Yes.

"Literally" is used to tell the reader that the seemingly impossible thing I'm about to say is not meant metaphorically and is not exaggeration ... but is, in fact, EXACTLY true, believe it or not.

They were not, LITERALLY, playing rugby out there.

If you had seen the three scrums and several of the cross body blocks we had, you would have used the word literally also.

Take a deep breath and get off that soapbox...

Or should I say "Sit down and be quiet?"

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Why do people type 'literally' when they literally don't mean literally? It's like they need a word for emphasis and just pick one at random - choosing one that means the opposite of what they mean.

Pet peeve? Yes.

"Literally" is used to tell the reader that the seemingly impossible thing I'm about to say is not meant metaphorically and is not exaggeration ... but is, in fact, EXACTLY true, believe it or not.

They were not, LITERALLY, playing rugby out there.

Maybe they really were trying to play rugby and that is why there were so many fouls????