Coach's leash

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Sometimes.

Other times they just go more nuts...dogs and coaches.

As Rich and Tom both have pointed out, there are nice rules of thumb, but sometimes the rules of thumb just don't fit. This OP sounds like one of those times...

For the record, I have ejected three coaches also in over 20 years of officiating. In all 3 cases I gave all the Ts involved. One instance was a case where a coach jumped up and yelled at an opposing player "You little motherf---er"

Good point!

I think that in the OP, this crew might not have been able to avoid it. However, there are also mechanics that could have limited this coaches access to the official, i.e. switching on fouls. In the OP, they did not switch:

Originally Posted by OKREF

A1 drives to basket, Trail calls push on B1, after whistle A1 takes another dribble and shoots. Trail call foul on the floor. Coach for A, on the other end of floor jumps up and screams...We go to the other end of the floor, and the coach is riding the same ref at baseline. Coach gets stuck

This tells me that the calling official on the original common foul should have been administering the throw in on the baseline (2-man game), preferably lane line opposite table side. There are reasons why we switch on fouls.

[zm1283]

I always cringe when I hear partners tell stories that involve them telling a coach to "Sit down and be quiet". I have discovered that a simple "That's enough" or "I've heard enough" works just fine most of the time. I use the stop sign sometimes depending on the situation.

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by Adam

I frankly don't care if everyone in the gym heard it.

Interesting. Say no one else heard it, but the official, is a technical merited? Moreover, is the ejection of the coach merited?
What is put in the report? Can it be corroborated? (playing Devil's Advocate here)

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Good point!

I think that in the OP, this crew might not have been able to avoid it. However, there are also mechanics that could have limited this coaches access to the official, i.e. switching on fouls. In the OP, they did not switch:



This tells me that the calling official on the original common foul should have been administering the throw in on the baseline (2-man game), preferably lane line opposite table side. There are reasons why we switch on fouls.

There was a switch. The explosion didn't happen on the next trip, it was a couple of trips later and the calling official ended up on the table side of the floor

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Interesting. Say no one else heard it, but the official, is a technical merited? Moreover, is the ejection of the coach merited?
What is put in the report? Can it be corroborated? (playing Devil's Advocate here)

If a coach tells me a call I made is bullsh*t he is geting a technical foul. I once had a coach whisper to me that he was getting cheated. I gave him a T. He said why did I give him a T. Nobody in the gym heard him say it but me. I just told him he wasn't going to call me a cheater even if I was the only one who heard it.

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by OKREF

There was a switch. The explosion didn't happen on the next trip, it was a couple of trips later and the calling official ended up on the table side of the floor

That makes more sense. Sorry, that was bothering me since I first read it.

[rockyroad]

I cannot think of a single time I have ever used the stop sign on a coach, or told a coach to sit down and be quiet or shut up or stop talking, etc...as an adult, I would not respond well to someone doing that to me. So I say things like "OK, Coach. You made your point. Time to move on."

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by OKREF

If a coach tells me a call I made is bullsh*t he is geting a technical foul. I once had a coach whisper to me that he was getting cheated. I gave him a T. He said why did I give him a T. Nobody in the gym heard him say it but me. I just told him he wasn't going to call me a cheater even if I was the only one who heard it.

Technical fouls are not personal, they are business; they are managing the game. We should not be in too many situations where the coach can whisper something to you. A good technical is one where there is no question as to why it happened AND once adjudicated makes the game flow better.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Technical fouls are not personal, they are business; they are managing the game. We should not be in too many situations where the coach can whisper something to you. A good technical is one where there is no question as to why it happened AND once adjudicated makes the game flow better.

It wasn't personal for me. He called my partner and I cheaters. That deserves a T no matter who hears it.

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I cannot think of a single time I have ever used the stop sign on a coach, or told a coach to sit down and be quiet or shut up or stop talking, etc...as an adult, I would not respond well to someone doing that to me. So I say things like "OK, Coach. You made your point. Time to move on."

We are always better when we can interact with the coach directly without the use of our hands.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Interesting. Say no one else heard it, but the official, is a technical merited? Moreover, is the ejection of the coach merited?
What is put in the report? Can it be corroborated? (playing Devil's Advocate here)

Yes, it's warranted. And the day my assigner doesn't accept my word for this is the day I quit. I am not worried about corroboration, other wise I'd use the dam n stop sign.

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by Adam

Yes, it's warranted. And the day my assigner doesn't accept my word for this is the day I quit. I am not worried about corroboration, other wise I'd use the dam n stop sign.

Another point for the stop sign!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Technical fouls are not personal, they are business; they are managing the game. We should not be in too many situations where the coach can whisper something to you. A good technical is one where there is no question as to why it happened AND once adjudicated makes the game flow better.

Generally true, but I'm sorry - if a coach tells an official that he's cheating, T him up. Volume doesn't matter. Who else heard it doesn't matter.

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Generally true, but I'm sorry - if a coach tells an official that he's cheating, T him up. Volume doesn't matter. Who else heard it doesn't matter.

I agree that when a coach goes too far and questions an official's integrity they have paid in full for their technical.
I also worked in associations where every technical foul on a coach requires a report both from the coach (or A.D.) and the crew to be filed. The association will also ask for game film to accompany this report being filed by the A.D. It's because of this I ask these questions.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

I apparently looked pretty pissed when I called it, and my partner told me as much.

Did your partner seem to think that this was a bad thing or not necessarily so?
Around here, we have had numerous conversation about demeanor on the court. It is, like most things, a case of you can't win.

We have one guy who frowns all the time. People don't like that.

"He's mad at us."

We have another guy who smiles all the time. People don't like that.

"He's laughing at us."

I, personally, find the smile to be much worse, particularly when directed at the coach on the short end of the last call, even though in this case I know that it is not done with evil intent.

So, having studied all this at length, in a serious game situation I try to remain expressionless on the court. But people don't like that either.

"Look at him, he doesn't even care."