Coach's leash

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...general comments about not liking one official to call both maybe, but nothing that rose to the level of needing the evil "roll eyes" smilie!

Originally Posted by VaTerp

You partially quoted me and took it out of context for your eye roll.

My comment was based on the fact that I like to plan for the extreme so I'm not surprised by most things that occur. It is probably fueled by my (cynical) opinions that humans are human and will often stoop very low when it fits their need. But I digress.

I had a situation very similar to the one I posted while living in the DC area. One partner calls a T on a coach, the coach is literally foaming at the mouth (not exaggerating) and comes onto the court after my partner. My second partner starts to make a move to call the second T and I get to him to stop him. My immediate thought was if that coach is going to come at my first partner literally like a rabid dog, he deserves the honor of chucking him out of the game. Fortunately, my partners were two of my good friends in the area and this whole thing was smooth (BNR probably knows exactly what two officials I'm talking about).

My "evil eye roll" was basked more on my own experience. Hey, can we get a stop sign smilie? It will work for everything.

[Rich]

Coach ejections are incredibly rare in basketball, in my experience. I've personally ejected 2 in 26 years of officiating basketball. On the first one, I called both technicals -- including one in the hallway at halftime when the coach followed us down the hall. On the second one I only called the second technical. The first one was sometime about 1991 and the second one was, I think, in 1995 or so. One was a JV boys game and the other was a varsity boys game.

My point is this -- it happens so infrequently, in my experience, that it's ludicrous to try to have some arbitrary rule of thumb for who should get the "honor" of doing it. On the other hand, a technical foul on a coach is *not* that rare of an experience, so the number of times that a coach flies off the handle and picks up a second one is incredibly rare, in my experience. Does this mean that it won't happen tomorrow? Of course not -- it could. But it likely won't.

Does this mean that we can't have best practice -- such as the official that calls the technical puts himself in the best position away from the coach and has a partner seatbelt the coach? Of course not. OTOH, if I'm reporting the technical foul and the coach flies off the handle or doesn't stop, I am *not* running away from him so my partner can come in and save the day. It's up to the coach to keep himself in the game, not up to me to ignore his behavior to keep him there.

[OKREF]

Just want to make one thing clear. In this situation the calling official really had no option. He gave the first one and the coach followed him up the line and never stopped talking to the official. I might not have made that clear. He got stuck, and kept on even after the coach was told to sit down. This all happened in about 15 seconds.

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Just want to make one thing clear. In this situation the calling official really had no option. He gave the first one and the coach followed him up the line and never stopped talking to the official. I might not have made that clear. He got stuck, and kept on even after the coach was told to sit down. This all happened in about 15 seconds.

Questions: Was the calling official table side when he first stuck the coach? After sticking the coach, did the official walk/jog to the table area along the same sideline that the coach was on? Did everyone in the gym hear him say "That was bull...!"

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Questions: Was the calling official table side when he first stuck the coach? After sticking the coach, did the official walk/jog to the table area along the same sideline that the coach was on? Did everyone in the gym hear him say "That was bull...!"

He was table side. Walked up the court towards the table, coach right on his heels. Not everyone heard it, however everyone at the table heard it.

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Questions: Was the calling official table side when he first stuck the coach? After sticking the coach, did the official walk/jog to the table area along the same sideline that the coach was on? Did everyone in the gym hear him say "That was bull...!"

I ask these silly questions because I have learned that there are ways to avoid those situations. Obviously this coach went a little nuts. BUT, have you ever noticed that if you walk by a barking dog in a cage, the closer you get the louder they bark? Step back and they quiet down a little.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by keith_15

I ask these silly questions because I have learned that there are ways to avoid those situations. Obviously this coach went a little nuts. BUT, have you ever noticed that if you walk by a barking dog in a cage, the closer you get the louder they bark? Step back and they quiet down a little.

Sometimes.

Other times they just go more nuts...dogs and coaches.

As Rich and Tom both have pointed out, there are nice rules of thumb, but sometimes the rules of thumb just don't fit. This OP sounds like one of those times...

For the record, I have ejected three coaches also in over 20 years of officiating. In all 3 cases I gave all the Ts involved. One instance was a case where a coach jumped up and yelled at an opposing player "You little motherf---er"

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Sometimes.

Other times they just go more nuts...dogs and coaches.

As Rich and Tom both have pointed out, there are nice rules of thumb, but sometimes the rules of thumb just don't fit. This OP sounds like one of those times...

For the record, I have ejected three coaches also in over 20 years of officiating. In all 3 cases I gave all the Ts involved. One instance was a case where a coach jumped up and yelled at an opposing player "You little motherf---er"

Good point!

I think that in the OP, this crew might not have been able to avoid it. However, there are also mechanics that could have limited this coaches access to the official, i.e. switching on fouls. In the OP, they did not switch:

Originally Posted by OKREF

A1 drives to basket, Trail calls push on B1, after whistle A1 takes another dribble and shoots. Trail call foul on the floor. Coach for A, on the other end of floor jumps up and screams...We go to the other end of the floor, and the coach is riding the same ref at baseline. Coach gets stuck

This tells me that the calling official on the original common foul should have been administering the throw in on the baseline (2-man game), preferably lane line opposite table side. There are reasons why we switch on fouls.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Questions: Was the calling official table side when he first stuck the coach? After sticking the coach, did the official walk/jog to the table area along the same sideline that the coach was on? Did everyone in the gym hear him say "That was bull...!"

I frankly don't care if everyone in the gym heard it.

[zm1283]

I always cringe when I hear partners tell stories that involve them telling a coach to "Sit down and be quiet". I have discovered that a simple "That's enough" or "I've heard enough" works just fine most of the time. I use the stop sign sometimes depending on the situation.

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by Adam

I frankly don't care if everyone in the gym heard it.

Interesting. Say no one else heard it, but the official, is a technical merited? Moreover, is the ejection of the coach merited?
What is put in the report? Can it be corroborated? (playing Devil's Advocate here)

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Interesting. Say no one else heard it, but the official, is a technical merited? Moreover, is the ejection of the coach merited?
What is put in the report? Can it be corroborated? (playing Devil's Advocate here)

If a coach tells me a call I made is bullsh*t he is geting a technical foul. I once had a coach whisper to me that he was getting cheated. I gave him a T. He said why did I give him a T. Nobody in the gym heard him say it but me. I just told him he wasn't going to call me a cheater even if I was the only one who heard it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Interesting. Say no one else heard it, but the official, is a technical merited? Moreover, is the ejection of the coach merited?
What is put in the report? Can it be corroborated? (playing Devil's Advocate here)

Yes, it's warranted. And the day my assigner doesn't accept my word for this is the day I quit. I am not worried about corroboration, other wise I'd use the dam n stop sign.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

On the second one I only called the second technical. The first one was sometime about 1991 and the second one was, I think, in 1995 or so.

Wow, 4 years between technicals, and you still ejected the guy! The second one must have been a doozie!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by maven

Wow, 4 years between technicals, and you still ejected the guy! The second one must have been a doozie!

Reading in context is your friend.