Coach's leash

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Stop sign doesn't work if you don't follow up with a T. No credibility and coach then knows the stop sign doesn't mean anything.

Isn't the stop sign supposed to work because you say "stop" right?

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Isn't the stop sign supposed to work because you say "stop" right?

Peace

Correct. But if the coach continues after the stop sign and you let it go. The stop sign doesn't mean anything.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Correct. But if the coach continues after the stop sign and you let it go. The stop sign doesn't mean anything.

Not disputing that fact, but it does not mean anything if a coach continues and does not get the message. Many of have been sold that it stops things and that is the point of the opposition that Tommy and myself are raising.

You might as well say, "Sit down and shut up" when using that signal IMHO. And we all know how well that statement works out right?

Peace

[Rich]

There will always be a group of officials who try to avoid calling a technical foul at all costs. It's easier on them, they figure. They won't have to justify it to an assignor or state office. Just 1:15 or so and they can be on their way with a check in their pockets.

I have no time for those people. I had a coach tell us that we cost him a game they were losing by 11 points with 1:30 left a few weeks ago. I could've ignored him. I didn't - I issued a technical foul -- he had tried to bait me by saying words like "terrible" and "horrible" as I went past the previous few possessions. The coach immediately sat down and didn't say another word.

Don't be the partner I have to clean up after. Don't be the official that the coach uses as an excuse when I don't let him get away with nonsense he got away with before.

[JRutledge]

I called a technical foul last night, I did not need a sign to keep it from happening. The issue is not being afraid of calling a technical, the issue is does the sign that everyone loves to advocate really accomplish the goal? I have stopped a many of Ts being called just by going to a coach quietly. When I give the "stop sign" a T is fast approaching or being accused of making the issue personal. This is not about fear of anything it is does it help the game as it is widely stated?

I am just saying that is clearly up for debate.

Peace

[Adam]

Exactly, Jeff. I have a lot more success with words than gestures.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I called a technical foul last night, I did not need a sign to keep it from happening. The issue is not being afraid of calling a technical, the issue is does the sign that everyone loves to advocate really accomplish the goal? I have stopped a many of Ts being called just by going to a coach quietly. When I give the "stop sign" a T is fast approaching or being accused of making the issue personal. This is not about fear of anything it is does it help the game as it is widely stated?

I am just saying that is clearly up for debate.

Peace

I don't always use a stop sign. I use it when I need to. Had a coach Monday night say he got a T in a tournament, and never got a stop sign. He said that if he had gotten one, he would have not said another word. Also said the opposing coach got 2 stops from the same official, and he never got a T.

I just know with me, if I give a coach the stop sign, the next time he offers his opinion on a call, I am giving him a T.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I don't always use a stop sign. I use it when I need to. Had a coach Monday night say he got a T in a tournament, and never got a stop sign. He said that if he had gotten one, he would have not said another word. Also said the opposing coach got 2 stops from the same official, and he never got a T.

I just know with me, if I give a coach the stop sign, the next time he offers his opinion on a call, I am giving him a T.

All I am really saying is it is not a one-size-fits-all tool. I will just put it this way, this has some other cultural, gender and sometimes racial elements to this that I have found that if used to the right or wrong person, it will blow up in your face. Because if you to the certain areas that will be seen as very disrespectful and you might have more problems then giving just one T, you might have to give more and more. I just think we have other tools in the arsenal and I like to step directly to a coach and quietly tell them something so that when the sh*t hits the fan, they cannot say I tried to show them up or make it personal. Does not mean they still cannot say those things, but the stop sign has shown to be just that in many eyes of people I have been around. Better yet, just give the darn T and we will not have to worry about what you did to exacerbate the issue as well. And if I was 6'5" and 250 of muscle, then a lot of that would go out the window because I hardly see many coaches mess with guys that big about anything.

Peace

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Rich

There will always be a group of officials who try to avoid calling a technical foul at all costs. It's easier on them, they figure. They won't have to justify it to an assignor or state office. Just 1:15 or so and they can be on their way with a check in their pockets.

I have no time for those people. I had a coach tell us that we cost him a game they were losing by 11 points with 1:30 left a few weeks ago. I could've ignored him. I didn't - I issued a technical foul -- he had tried to bait me by saying words like "terrible" and "horrible" as I went past the previous few possessions. The coach immediately sat down and didn't say another word.

Don't be the partner I have to clean up after. Don't be the official that the coach uses as an excuse when I don't let him get away with nonsense he got away with before.

One thing I'll add: Have your partner's back, too. If a player is saying something nasty about them, please T them up. Don't come to me afterwards and tell me to keep an eye on said player.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Rich

There will always be a group of officials who try to avoid calling a technical foul at all costs. It's easier on them, they figure. They won't have to justify it to an assignor or state office. Just 1:15 or so and they can be on their way with a check in their pockets.

I have no time for those people. I had a coach tell us that we cost him a game they were losing by 11 points with 1:30 left a few weeks ago. I could've ignored him. I didn't - I issued a technical foul -- he had tried to bait me by saying words like "terrible" and "horrible" as I went past the previous few possessions. The coach immediately sat down and didn't say another word.

Don't be the partner I have to clean up after. Don't be the official that the coach uses as an excuse when I don't let him get away with nonsense he got away with before.

So he told you that you were horrible and terrible, but that didn't get him a T??

I would have whacked him in a heartbeat for saying that about me or my partner.

So maybe others have had to clean up after you also??

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So he told you that you were horrible and terrible, but that didn't get him a T??

I would have whacked him in a heartbeat for saying that about me or my partner.

So maybe others have had to clean up after you also??

No, he didn't say, "You are horrible" or "You are terrible" as I went past. He muttered those single words under his breath and, you know what? It didn't reach the level of stopping the game to whack him at that point.

Clearly he was trying to draw a reaction or a technical, because when I obliged, he sat down and shut up.

One thing I've never been accused of is leaving things for others to clean up. So this is a first, then.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Rich

No, he didn't say, "You are horrible" or "You are terrible" as I went past. He muttered those single words under his breath and, you know what? It didn't reach the level of stopping the game to whack him at that point.

Clearly he was trying to draw a reaction or a technical, because when I obliged, he sat down and shut up.

One thing I've never been accused of is leaving things for others to clean up. So this is a first, then.

Just asking questions. Didn't accuse anyone of anything...

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

...You might as well say, "Sit down and shut up" when using that signal IMHO. And we all know how well that statement works out right?

Peace

Bingo! It is just disrespectful and condescending. When someone crosses my line, they are pretty much getting a T. I would like the communication to be as nice as possible up until the point where communication is shut off or my line is crossed.

Funny story - I had a game last week that set basketball back 10 years...the game was not played well on either side. The coach takes one of his players out and the kid goes to the end of the bench and kicks the chair over. I'm the old Lead, new Trail tableside and whack the kid. After we handle business, we go up and down a few times and the coach is still standing (I left him alone on purpose and my partners...I am working with the same two tonight and will address that). During a timeout I go and tell him that he must remain seated because he got an indirect technical foul. After explaining to him why, you know what he said - keep in mind the action of the kid was never in doubt? He said, "Well you shouldn't have called it then!" What a piece of work. The stop sign with a coach like this would have set it off up in there!

[Adam]

Wow. Some coaches just don't get it. I had to explain the seat belt to the HC after I tossed the AC last summer.

[OKREF]

Does the assistant have the seat belt when head coach gets run?