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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:40pm
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Coach's leash

A1 drives to basket, Trail calls push on B1, after whistle A1 takes another dribble and shoots. Trail call foul on the floor. Coach for A, on the other end of floor jumps up and screams, he is shooting, shooting foul, at thetop of his lungs, across half court. Trail says no, on the floor. 1st quarter 1:00 left. We go to the other end of the floor, and the coach is riding the same ref at baseline. Coach gets stuck, says "You have been waiting all night to do that". On the way to the table ref say's, coach you need to sit down and be quiet. Coach says "That's bullsh*t". Coach gets his second.

Now. My question is was that to fast for the second one? I don't believe so in this circumstance. He most certainly could have gotten one the first time he jumped up.

FYI: to finish the story. Coach goes nuts storms the court going after official, and makes contact.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:47pm
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Heck no, he had to go. Sounds like someone needs to switch to decaf, but he may not be coaching much longer if he's attacking officials.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:52pm
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Not too fast at all.

My only questions are which official told him to sit and who issued the 2nd T.

I hope it was a team effort.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:53pm
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Same official got both. First one was at the baseline, and the second was about the 28 ft mark.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Same official got both. First one was at the baseline, and the second was about the 28 ft mark.
2 or 3 man?

Regardless, once you stick a coach I like for someone else to go seatbelt him. That can sometimes help the situation be less volatile.

And I also like for someone else to toss him after one official has issued the first T. That way you reduce the appearance of it being personal.

But you do what you have to do and this coach was not trying to see the rest of the game apparently.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:02pm
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Pretty obvious the guy was going to get the second one and get tossed, but why in the world would the official who is reporting the T tell the Coach to "sit down and be quiet"???

Talk about throwing gas on a fire...if the Coach deserves the second one, give it and toss the clown. But we certainly don't need to be saying things like that to a Coach in a heated situation. Get away from the Coach...let partner inform him of the seatbelt...if he still wants to say something he will have to say it to me from across the court.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:04pm
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2 man. We as well would not prefer to have the same official give both T's in any situation. I think though, the way this happened it just couldn't be helped.

The coach has to know that after the first one, he just has to leave it be. The second official was coming in and was about the free throw line. It just happened so fast. I think the way the coach initially reacted to the non shooting foul certainly played a part in the first T.

Last edited by OKREF; Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 02:06pm.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:04pm
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
Pretty obvious the guy was going to get the second one and get tossed, but why in the world would the official who is reporting the T tell the Coach to "sit down and be quiet"???

Talk about throwing gas on a fire...if the Coach deserves the second one, give it and toss the clown. But we certainly don't need to be saying things like that to a Coach in a heated situation. Get away from the Coach...let partner inform him of the seatbelt...if he still wants to say something he will have to say it to me from across the court.
Exactly.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
A1 drives to basket, Trail calls push on B1, after whistle A1 takes another dribble and shoots. Trail call foul on the floor. Coach for A, on the other end of floor jumps up and screams, he is shooting, shooting foul, at thetop of his lungs, across half court. Trail says no, on the floor. 1st quarter 1:00 left. We go to the other end of the floor, and the coach is riding the same ref at baseline. Coach gets stuck, says "You have been waiting all night to do that". On the way to the table ref say's, coach you need to sit down and be quiet. Coach says "That's bullsh*t". Coach gets his second.

Now. My question is was that to fast for the second one? I don't believe so in this circumstance. He most certainly could have gotten one the first time he jumped up.

FYI: to finish the story. Coach goes nuts storms the court going after official, and makes contact.
Not too quick for the second. I have no problem calling both myself, too. Take care of business.

Exactly what language was used here?

As for the subsequent physical contact... there's a whole other box of worms. In FIBA, the new HC is stuck with a T as well - and 6 shots coming.
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Last edited by JugglingReferee; Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 02:27pm.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:36pm
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No. And if he did tell him to "sit down and shut up" on some level, it is still up to the coach to act professionally and not use inappropriate language. And saying "That's bull$!t" is usually going to get you stuck by many officials. Just because the official did not use the proper procedure does not excuse bad or unsporting behavior. I would talk to the official if I was an evaluator about that interaction, but when coaches roll the dice, they might just crap out with the wrong official.

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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:42pm
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I think people take the not giving two T's to a coach back to back too far. Of course, in an ideal world, maybe the other official gets the 2nd T, but if the coach crosses the line a 2nd time while you're there and before your partner(s) is/are in position to handle the coach, then sometimes you'll have to be the one to give the walking paper unless you want to give the coach a free pass.

As to this situation, the calling official may have set off the 2nd T by telling the coach to "sit down and be quiet." That tantamount to tell tell him to sit down and shut up and while he/she is required to sit down, one should probably let the calling official handle seat belt responsibilities for the coach while the calling official moves away from the area.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:48pm
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I actually had a very similar situation last year. GV coach, standing on the X screaming about a foul call. I calmly made the T signal as I arrived to report the foul. After lingering for a few seconds continuing to protest, as she turned back to the bench, the coach said "Bullsh....." The end of the word kinda trailed off. It didn't seem that loud to me, but I learned later that people across the gym heard it. I think it was more shock than anything else (I can't believe she actually said that) but I didn't call anything else. I tried, unsuccessfully, to justify it to myself by saying it was all part of the same incident, but my final opinion, then and now, is that failure to toss this coach at that point was the worst mistake I made all year.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APG View Post
I think people take the not giving two T's to a coach back to back too far. Of course, in an ideal world, maybe the other official gets the 2nd T, but if the coach crosses the line a 2nd time while you're there and before your partner(s) is/are in position to handle the coach, then sometimes you'll have to be the one to give the walking paper unless you want to give the coach a free pass.

As to this situation, the calling official may have set off the 2nd T by telling the coach to "sit down and be quiet." That tantamount to tell tell him to sit down and shut up and while he/she is required to sit down, one should probably let the calling official handle seat belt responsibilities for the coach while the calling official moves away from the area.
This is a great point.

Also in my experience usually that kind of language is not acceptable to school administrators (above the AD for sure) and do not like their school to have adults act in ways that is outside of the mission of the education system. Of course you can have schools that take their famdom too far, but often I have found that kind of behavior is not what a school wants to represent. And if that was in the report that a coach cursed like that, it would get a lot of coaches in big trouble in this environment we live today. Maybe 20 years ago no one would have made a stink over this, but not today.
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 03:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
coach you need to sit down and be quiet. Coach says "That's bullsh*t". Coach gets his second.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
Not too quick for the second. I have no problem calling both myself, too. Take care of business.

Exactly what language was used here?

As for the subsequent physical contact... there's a whole other box of worms. In FIBA, the new HC is stuck with a T as well - and 6 shots coming.

This was what the official said. The coach was talking the whole time between the first and second T's. His last statement before the 2nd was "That's bullsh*t".
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Old Tue Dec 11, 2012, 03:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
This was what the official said. The coach was talking the whole time between the first and second T's. His last statement before the 2nd was "That's bullsh*t".
He shouldn't say that. Let the coach hang himself.
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