Cannot Sub for Guy who Dunks in Pregame?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You must have some sort of complex if you're scared to enforce the rules without thinking there will be some sort of drama involved.

Coach: I want to pull my knucklehead out the starting line-up for that stupid stunt.

Me: No problem coach, you can do so as soon as we shoot the first free throw.

Coach: Thanks.

Maybe you just lack the requisite communications skills to pull off such a daunting task.

(do I need to include some sort of smiley face with this post so I don't seem bossy?)

So clever you are. I am certain this conversation would go exactly as you typed it. Bravo. You win. Feel better?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

So clever you are. I am certain this conversation would go exactly as you typed it. Bravo. You win. Feel better?

That's how the conversation did go. If you would have read instead of looking for a fight you would have seen that I said I've had this situation exactly once.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That's how the conversation did go. If you would have read instead of looking for a fight you would have seen that I said I've had this situation exactly once.

Oh then I stand corrected. You had this scenario exactly once and that's how the conversation went, so therefore that's how it would go everywhere. I didn't realize I was in the presence of such greatness. My apologies.

[BillyMac]

If you're on the fence on this one, then just go by the rule. Very little can go wrong when you follow the rules, especially when you have to describe the situation to your assignment commissioner on the phone a few hours later. If you're not on the fence, then just do what you have to do.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Oh then I stand corrected. You had this scenario exactly once and that's how the conversation went, so therefore that's how it would go everywhere. I didn't realize I was in the presence of such greatness. My apologies.

No, you're just in the presense of someone who isn't afraid of coaches and doesn't worry about how angry they are at their players.

Personally, I'm going to start by doing it right. If I get some kind of backlash from the coach only THEN will I consider bending the rules. And when I bend the rule I'll will let the opposing coach know I'm doing so. I'm not going to try to sneak it by him and see if he doesn't notice. And I'll also call my supervisor after the game and let him know what I did.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No, you're just in the presense of someone who isn't afraid of coaches and doesn't worry about how angry they are at their players.

And someone who leaps to conclusions. You assume I am afraid of coaches because of what I wrote. That tells me enough about you.

I am going to let a coach solve a problem in a very productive way that really puts himself at a disadvantage because he's replacing a starting player with a player who would not have started. That puts the other coach at a distinct advantage to start the game. So by allowing that coach to handle that situation in the way he wants and also teach the moron kid a lesson, without intervening in that beautiful process, how exactly am I hurting this wonderful game?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

And someone who leaps to conclusions. You assume I am afraid of coaches because of what I wrote. That tells me enough about you.

I am going to let a coach solve a problem ...

What problem needs to be solved? We're not talking about a kid who is committing unsporting acts towards the officials and ruining the game. The kid will be sitting on the bench when the clocks starts. My way doesn't prevent that.

And I never said your way harmed anybody. I just said I'm more likely to get flak from the opposing coach about changing starters than I am going to get from the offending coach for making a sub wait for the first free throw.

So who is jumping to conclusions?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Years and years ago I was officiating a boys' H.S. game. A1 dunked the ball during the 30 minute pre-game period. B-HC wanted to have B6 replace B1 to shoot the TF free throws. Over the streneous objections of A-HC I let B6 replace B1. I told A-HC that while the game, by rule, begins with the TF free throws, the rule that allows any player(s) in the game or any legal substitute(s) to shoot the free throws prevails because for all intents and purposes the game actually started when A1 dunked a dead ball during the pre-game warmups.

Later that season during a telephone conversation with Dick Schindler about an altogether different situation, I mentioned the previous play and A-HC's objection to how I handled the situation and Dick used the exact same words that I used to with A-HC in stating that I had handled the situation correctly. The conversation took place over 20 years ago. Somethings never change.

Happy Turkey Day!! Go Buckeyes!! Beat that team from that state up north!!

MTD, Sr.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If you would have read instead of looking for a fight

Because rolling your eyes is a compliment where you come from?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Because rolling your eyes is a compliment where you come from?

My rolling my eyes was in reference to "teaching the kid a lesson". That lesson is being taught whether it comes before or after the free throw so it is irrelavent to which way an official decides to handle the situation.

Folks are acting as if waiting for the first free throw prevents the coach from dealing with the kid. It doesn't prevent the coach from sitting the kid down for the rest of the warm-ups.

I've yet to read from anyone who has had a case where the coach got upset about having to wait. I could make the same argument Snakewells made. Any coach who pitches a fit about that isn't going to last very long once the game starts.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My rolling my eyes was in reference to "teaching the kid a lesson".

This is high school we're talking about. And more importantly, in this scenario, middle school. Far too often I see coaches doing the opposite - allowing kids to behave badly and keeping them in the game because winning is far more important than teaching. In this case, I applaud the coach for teaching that lesson. We can agree to disagree.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This is high school we're talking about. And more importantly, in this scenario, middle school. Far too often I see coaches doing the opposite - allowing kids to behave badly and keeping them in the game because winning is far more important than teaching. In this case, I applaud the coach for teaching that lesson. We can agree to disagree.

Again, where does my way prevent the coach from dealing with the kid?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Again, where does my way prevent the coach from dealing with the kid?

If the coach is pissed at his kid and wants him on the bench immediately, I am inclined to let him. That's my perspective on it. I don't believe I ever said your way was wrong. I am just defending my way.